2-person Long-Switching

[JRutledge]

We must understand that mechanics are not like rules. The Mechanics books are guides for basic procedures. If your state or area wants to change them, they can do that. For example our state does not want us to bounce the ball from the Lead or New Trail positions to the thrower. In the NF mechanics I believe there is an option. So if your state does not want to switch on all fouls, then that might be something your state would mandate. If you have no specific procedure from the NF, then you can do what you think is best. Not all issues are listed in the NF Official's Manual. I do not even think the "bump and run" is advocated. At least when I started it was not but it was a very common mechanic we used.

BTW Basketball is the only sport we follow the mechanics book in my state pretty much to the letter out of the three sports I work. In Football and Baseball most of what the NF puts in those manuals does not apply to us. And these are two sports we have NF Committee members directly from the IHSA office. So that should tell you how important those books are to the NF.

Peace

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not even think the "bump and run" is advocated. At least when I started it was not but it was a very common mechanic we used.

FYI - Jrut - It's in there now.

Originally Posted by OFFICIALS MANUAL

Basic Procedures and Mechanics - Two Officials - Throw-In
218. Other Throw-in situations:
c. Backcourt. The new Trail official shall administer all throw-ins in the backcourt and may need to change sides of the court ("bump and run") depending on the throw-in spot.

[Adam]

In Iowa and here in Colorado, virtually all my experienced partners specifically pregamed not to do long switches. Most of them won't even switch all the time when they call a foul as T in the front court unless we get a couple in a row. Call it, report it, and get the ball in play immediately seems to be the mantra around here.
With the new guys, I'm just happy to have them in the right spot during a live ball.

[Back In The Saddle]

As somebody smarter than me pointed out, the biggest potential problem with the long switch is that while you and your partner are still hanging out at this end of the floor (he reporting, you preparing to inbound), the other eight guys are all heading up the floor with inadequate supervision. And since something physical just happened to necessitate calling the foul, there's always the chance that somebody will retaliate. If they do, where are you? Standing in backcourt, nowhere nearby.

So I pregame to not do the long switch, at least not if play will resume with a throw-in. I also pregame that we don't switch if the trail calls a foul in the frontcourt such that he can turn, report, and inbounds the ball all from right where he's at.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

As somebody smarter than me pointed out, the biggest potential problem with the long switch is that while you and your partner are still hanging out at this end of the floor (he reporting, you preparing to inbound), the other eight guys are all heading up the floor with inadequate supervision. And since something physical just happened to necessitate calling the foul, there's always the chance that somebody will retaliate. If they do, where are you? Standing in backcourt, nowhere nearby.

So I pregame to not do the long switch, at least not if play will resume with a throw-in. I also pregame that we don't switch if the trail calls a foul in the frontcourt such that he can turn, report, and inbounds the ball all from right where he's at.

Now that's just silly. Why would we do that, when we...do that...in.....3-person.....Other than the long switch, the thing I despise the most is calling a foul as tableside trail in the FC, turning and reporting, turning around, and having my partner stand halfway up the paint, holding the ball in a way that implies I need to get over there and take it from him. (Sarcasm on) Yeah, I know - let's hold up the game another 5-7 seconds for....I'm sure some good reason, and look just plain goofy and like we're arbitrarily switching places while NO ONE else on the court is even moving. Yeah. Seems like we should keep that one around for a while, even though we don't do anything resembling it anymore in 3-person. (Sarcasm off)

I was taught these same things when I started. I know an official from Georgia who was taught the same things as the norm, so I know it's not just an Iowa thing.

So does anyone have any Fed insight into why these are still in place? Do we think these (or at least the no long switch) will be implemented into the Fed 2-person mechanics any time soon?

And thank you, all, for making me feel more sane.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

So does anyone have any Fed insight into why these are still in place? Do we think these (or at least the no long switch) will be implemented into the Fed 2-person mechanics any time soon?

No!

The reason, since I have been following the NFHS rules and NCAA Men's. They seem to be the most reluctant to want to improve upon the system. Most senior officials who have been doing it a long time, ignore these dumb rules. The only people I see doing this is the new or young officials, wanting to do the 2-person switch at every foul. I feel you on the shooting foul called from Trail and after reporting you turn around and have to run down and administrator F/T's, dumb, dumb, dumb.....!!!!

Do I think they will ever change it? If they haven't by now, I don't think so. The NBA has it together when it comes to these type of things. You might find it enjoyable reading, reading their code because it answers a lot of questions in my mind as to why they change things that are different from the others. They are also more willing to listen to their officials and make changes when everyone is in agreement that it needs to change. NFHS and NCAA Men's don't listen to front line officials, and probably because there is just too many of us. Even with the rules they have in place now, there is not consistently across the nation. One thing for sure, there's not going to be any long switches in the games I do. Even if it's just one varsity game 2-person. No long switches.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

let's hold up the game another 5-7 seconds for....I'm sure some good reason,

Gasp!! Five to seven more seconds!?!?!?! How will we ever wake everybody up after making them wait that long for us to switch? I wanted to get home to see "24", but those 5-7 seconds will make me late!!

Good grief. What's the rush? There's a good reason NOT to switch in 3-whistle (calling official bench side) and there's a good reason TO switch in 2-whistle (don't have the same official calling the same foul on the same player twice in a row).

If that 5-7 seconds is your biggest worry in a game, you're doing a heck of a job. I got much bigger problems in my games.

[iref4him]

When the NBA had only two man crews, they did not do any long swtiches for fouls in the back court and the ball was put back in play in the back court.

I recently screwed up my ankle and had a hard to moving. My partner was in his 5th month of recovering from open heart surgery. He asked me if we could do no long switches and do it like the old NBA 2-man crew. I said fine. The game went no differently and it saved me from pushing on my ankle to much and helped him too.

I use to work in the summer pro-league and college open league in LA. We used NBA 2-man mechanics and NBA rules for both leagues. It was a great experience.

I don't think there is nothing wrong with no long switches. Sometimes I have gone from lead to lead 2 or 3 times because T had made the calls in front of them. BUt until it is changed..I will do long switches except for the above situation.

Side note: We have an assignor here in this association who does not like the ball being bounced to players for throw ins. He wants us to hand the ball to them. The manual says bounce pass is ok, but do what the assignor says to get games. Right?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

There's a good reason NOT to switch in 3-whistle (calling official bench side) and there's a good reason TO switch in 2-whistle (don't have the same official calling the same foul on the same player twice in a row).

I'm not sure what your point is on the 3 whistle system. Virtually everything related to position after fouls is meant to get the calling official table side except when we go long with no FTs. As you might recall there was quite a bit of confusion when going table side was introduced regarding what to do on fouls in the backcourt with no free throws. I went to 3 camps that summer and was told to do this 3 different ways. I'm glad they settled on sliding instead of switching.

The 1 good reason for no long switch with 2 whistles is we can keep 4 eyes on the players while getting into position. Which btw is why it works with 3 whistles. You can keep 6 eyes on the players...(or if you're on the crew 5 good eyes)

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Good grief. What's the rush? There's a good reason NOT to switch in 3-whistle (calling official bench side) and there's a good reason TO switch in 2-whistle (don't have the same official calling the same foul on the same player twice in a row).

There's the flaw in the logic! Which leads me to believe that either the person responsible for this is not home, no one's steering the boat, or they are just pain being stupid or stubborn, whichever you prefer. In 3-person, it's okay for the same person to remain in the position he's in, but in 2 person, we have to switch! Give me a break! At least in the NBA, they make the other 2 officials switch on these type of fouls which to me is better than everyone staying where they are.

I have never had a problem calling fouls on a player. If he deserves it, he's getting a foul, no matter where I'm at on the court. To suggest that they are concerned about me calling the same foul on the same player if he committs the same act again because I'm in the same position again, is bush league thinking, imo.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Gasp!! Five to seven more seconds!?!?!?! How will we ever wake everybody up after making them wait that long for us to switch? I wanted to get home to see "24", but those 5-7 seconds will make me late!!

Good grief. What's the rush? There's a good reason NOT to switch in 3-whistle (calling official bench side) and there's a good reason TO switch in 2-whistle (don't have the same official calling the same foul on the same player twice in a row).

If that 5-7 seconds is your biggest worry in a game, you're doing a heck of a job. I got much bigger problems in my games.

I don't watch 24, and that's not quite my point, but appreciate your sarcasm. What I'm saying is, it seems (and feels to me personally) as arbitrary a delay of game administration caused by the officials, as would, say, mandating that the ball not be put back in play following a time-out after 30 seconds of a 60-second time-out when both teams are on the court, ready to go, and waiting, until the full 60 seconds have elapsed.

I guess my philosophy on switching mechanics is more utilitarian. I think they should be focused on doing things unhurredly and accurately, yes, but also have a sense of utilitarianism, insomuch as being focused on how the ball can next be put back into play in the least delaying manner - relative to where the officials (especially the calling official) end up following correct reporting procedures, so as to best facilitate the continuation of the game.

[Junker]

My partner in a 2 man freshman/JV double header last night asked a similar question. I told him we do not long switch. I learned never to do it in either 2 or 3.

[psycho_ref]

In my opinion, the majority of contact is called by the lead and happens in the paint. So I think that one of the reasons we switch on foul calls, is that, if your partner is calling everything in sight and you are calling nothing, there is a balance on both ends of the floor. I agree with the idea that if the trail is the calling official in the front court, that no switch should be made. (I know what the mechanic is, but it probably should be changed.)

I hate it when we go out there like drones and do things we don't know the reason for. I think we should always ask why things are. Know the rule, but just as importantly know what the intent of the rule is. Always ask why.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

1. Does everyone out there run the full length of the court after you call a bonus foul in the backcourt to report and then become new lead, administering the subsequent free-throws?

2. Am I the only one who thinks this is ludicrous?

1. Yes, always

2. I have found quite a few rules and articles ludicrous.