NCAA Mens Kick Ball Rule Clarification Needed

[mtbabo]

MENS NCAA RULE

SHOT CLOCK RESET TO 15 ON DEFENSIVE KICKED BALL

Rule book reference; R2, art 6 (f) and R2, art 7 (b); pgs 60-61.
there is no reference to the following because shot clocks do not have 100's
sec showing.

CASE

Offense has ball and during a pass it is kicked by the defense.

Shot clock reads 15 seconds.

In shot clocks that don't have 100's of a second in fact the shot clock
could read anywhere from 15.00 to 14.01 till it changes to 14.

Since the rule implies that the offense should have a minimum of 15 secs I
beLieve that the shot clock operator should be asked to reset the clock to
15 and then we know they have the full 15 secs that is required by rule in a
"kicked ball situation".

I am trying to find if there has been any NCAA update on this situation.
Thank you.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by mtbabo

MENS NCAA RULE

SHOT CLOCK RESET TO 15 ON DEFENSIVE KICKED BALL

Rule book reference; R2, art 6 (f) and R2, art 7 (b); pgs 60-61.
there is no reference to the following because shot clocks do not have 100's
sec showing.

CASE

Offense has ball and during a pass it is kicked by the defense.

Shot clock reads 15 seconds.

In shot clocks that don't have 100's of a second in fact the shot clock
could read anywhere from 15.00 to 14.01 till it changes to 14.

Since the rule implies that the offense should have a minimum of 15 secs I
beLieve that the shot clock operator should be asked to reset the clock to
15 and then we know they have the full 15 secs that is required by rule in a
"kicked ball situation".

I am trying to find if there has been any NCAA update on this situation.
Thank you.

The NCAA rulebook is very clear when to reset the shot clock. Don't turn it into a big bowl of gulash by reading too much into the rule and adding factors (100's of a second) that are not pertinent.

[wfd21]

This years NCAA rule book.Page 60/61. 2-14.6f, 2-14.7b

[Scrapper1]

mtbabo is exactly correct. NCAA 2-14-6f says that when a kicked ball occurs with "14 seconds or less", we reset to 15. NCAA 2-14-7b says that when a kicked ball occurs with "15 seconds or more", there's no reset.

So what happens if the kicked ball occurs with more than 14.0 seconds but less than 15.0 seconds remaining? Do we reset or not?

It would be better if the rule said if the shot clock "shows" 14 seconds or less, then reset it to 15. That's what it means, but that's not what it says.

[mtbabo]

That was the main point in my question as far ask not knowing how much time was really on the shot clock. As we all know .9 or .1 can be a big deal when it comes to last second shots. A shot clock with 14.9 or a shot clock with 14.1 can make a big difference.

[Raymond]

If the shot clock say 14.whatever, you reset it to 15. If it says 15 or any number higher than 15, you don't reset it.

[Ron Giacoma]

Since the shot clock does not give/read in a tenth or hundredth of a second, go with the Rule as it reads. P.S. hundredth is different from 100's...... hundredth is 1/100 = one part of one hundred whereas, 100's = more than 99 parts as a whole and could mean 200 or 300 as a whole etc..

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

If the shot clock say 14.whatever, you reset it to 15. If it says 15 or any number higher than 15, you don't reset it.

I think we all agree that's the intent of the rule. But that's not what the rule says. That's what the original poster is pointing out.

[truerookie]

WOW!

I look up the and the shot displays 14 I will have it reset to 15. I look up and it displays 15 that is what we are going with.

[mtbabo]

When the shot clock reads, "15", it could be "15.0 - 15.9". Once the clocks hits "14", it could be "14.0 - 14.9". Therefore when the clock is at "15" and there is a kicked ball, the clock is not reset to "15". The team could actually be losing "tenths" of a second, if the shot clock were to be reset when it was at "15".

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by mtbabo

When the shot clock reads, "15", it could be "15.0 - 15.9". Once the clocks hits "14", it could be "14.0 - 14.9". Therefore when the clock is at "15" and there is a kicked ball, the clock is not reset to "15". The team could actually be losing "tenths" of a second, if the shot clock were to be reset when it was at "15".

Not true. Shot clocks work differently than (most) game clocks. The shot clock will remain at 30 or 35 for one full second, then go to 29 or 34. So, the time remaining is always equal to or less than the time displayed. As soon as the clock hits zero, the horm sounds.

The game clock (most game clocks) will immediately go to 19:59 when started; the time remaining is always equal to or greater than the time displayed; the clock will remain at 0:00 for one second before the horn sounds.

[Lotto]

I have never seen a shot clock that shows tenths or hundredths of a second.

This discussion is why the rule was changed from last year to this year. In the 2006 NCAA rules, one was supposed to reset to 15 when there were 15 seconds or less on the shot clock when the kicked ball occurred. Most shot clocks read 30 when there's 29.1-30 seconds left, then change to 29 at 29 seconds left, and so on. (Why? You wouldn't want the clock to say 0 before time expired!) This caused people to wonder what to do when the shot clock said 15 with a kicked ball violation, since in most cases, there would be less than 15 seconds left. The NCAA does not want a reset in this case, so they changed the rule this year to specify a reset with 14 or less on the shot clock, and no reset with 15 or more.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Lotto

I have never seen a shot clock that shows tenths or hundredths of a second.

This discussion is why the rule was changed from last year to this year. In the 2006 NCAA rules, one was supposed to reset to 15 when there were 15 seconds or less on the shot clock when the kicked ball occurred. Most shot clocks read 30 when there's 29.1-30 seconds left, then change to 29 at 29 seconds left, and so on. (Why? You wouldn't want the clock to say 0 before time expired!) This caused people to wonder what to do when the shot clock said 15 with a kicked ball violation, since in most cases, there would be less than 15 seconds left. The NCAA does not want a reset in this case, so they changed the rule this year to specify a reset with 14 or less on the shot clock, and no reset with 15 or more.

I agree -- but the "correct" way to do this is to reset it to 15 if the clock shows 15 or less (not the current rule of resetting it when the clock shows 14 or less).

I also disagree with the OP that there's a "big difference" between 14.1 and 14.9. That's plenty of time to adjust to whatever happens as it ticks down, and nobody has a play that tkaes between 14 and 15 seconds to run ("If the clock is at 14.1, we'll run Iowa; if it's at 14.9, we'll run Texas")

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

mtbabo is exactly correct. NCAA 2-14-6f says that when a kicked ball occurs with "14 seconds or less", we reset to 15. NCAA 2-14-7b says that when a kicked ball occurs with "15 seconds or more", there's no reset.

So what happens if the kicked ball occurs with more than 14.0 seconds but less than 15.0 seconds remaining? Do we reset or not?

The rule states 14 seconds and 15 seconds as the boundary for the kick rule. It does not state 14.0 seconds or 15.0 seconds. Another way of saying this is we do not need to be accurate to the 10s of seconds, we only need to be accurate to the second.

So for our purposes it does not matter where between 14.9999999999999999999999999999999.... and 14.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0001 the timing device is at. All we care is whether it says 14 (set it to 15) or 15 (do nothing).

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

The rule states 14 seconds and 15 seconds as the boundary for the kick rule. It does not state 14.0 seconds or 15.0 seconds.

Unless my education was extremely lacking, 14 = 14.0 and 15 = 15.0. So stating 14 is equivalent to stating 14.0. No?

All we care is whether it says 14 (set it to 15) or 15 (do nothing).

Once again, I agree. But that's not what the rule says.