NCAA Mens Kick Ball Rule Clarification Needed

[mtbabo]

MENS NCAA RULE

SHOT CLOCK RESET TO 15 ON DEFENSIVE KICKED BALL

Rule book reference; R2, art 6 (f) and R2, art 7 (b); pgs 60-61.
there is no reference to the following because shot clocks do not have 100's
sec showing.

CASE

Offense has ball and during a pass it is kicked by the defense.

Shot clock reads 15 seconds.

In shot clocks that don't have 100's of a second in fact the shot clock
could read anywhere from 15.00 to 14.01 till it changes to 14.

Since the rule implies that the offense should have a minimum of 15 secs I
beLieve that the shot clock operator should be asked to reset the clock to
15 and then we know they have the full 15 secs that is required by rule in a
"kicked ball situation".

I am trying to find if there has been any NCAA update on this situation.
Thank you.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by mtbabo

MENS NCAA RULE

SHOT CLOCK RESET TO 15 ON DEFENSIVE KICKED BALL

Rule book reference; R2, art 6 (f) and R2, art 7 (b); pgs 60-61.
there is no reference to the following because shot clocks do not have 100's
sec showing.

CASE

Offense has ball and during a pass it is kicked by the defense.

Shot clock reads 15 seconds.

In shot clocks that don't have 100's of a second in fact the shot clock
could read anywhere from 15.00 to 14.01 till it changes to 14.

Since the rule implies that the offense should have a minimum of 15 secs I
beLieve that the shot clock operator should be asked to reset the clock to
15 and then we know they have the full 15 secs that is required by rule in a
"kicked ball situation".

I am trying to find if there has been any NCAA update on this situation.
Thank you.

The NCAA rulebook is very clear when to reset the shot clock. Don't turn it into a big bowl of gulash by reading too much into the rule and adding factors (100's of a second) that are not pertinent.

[wfd21]

This years NCAA rule book.Page 60/61. 2-14.6f, 2-14.7b

[Scrapper1]

mtbabo is exactly correct. NCAA 2-14-6f says that when a kicked ball occurs with "14 seconds or less", we reset to 15. NCAA 2-14-7b says that when a kicked ball occurs with "15 seconds or more", there's no reset.

So what happens if the kicked ball occurs with more than 14.0 seconds but less than 15.0 seconds remaining? Do we reset or not?

It would be better if the rule said if the shot clock "shows" 14 seconds or less, then reset it to 15. That's what it means, but that's not what it says.

[mtbabo]

That was the main point in my question as far ask not knowing how much time was really on the shot clock. As we all know .9 or .1 can be a big deal when it comes to last second shots. A shot clock with 14.9 or a shot clock with 14.1 can make a big difference.

[Raymond]

If the shot clock say 14.whatever, you reset it to 15. If it says 15 or any number higher than 15, you don't reset it.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

If the shot clock say 14.whatever, you reset it to 15. If it says 15 or any number higher than 15, you don't reset it.

I think we all agree that's the intent of the rule. But that's not what the rule says. That's what the original poster is pointing out.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

mtbabo is exactly correct. NCAA 2-14-6f says that when a kicked ball occurs with "14 seconds or less", we reset to 15. NCAA 2-14-7b says that when a kicked ball occurs with "15 seconds or more", there's no reset.

So what happens if the kicked ball occurs with more than 14.0 seconds but less than 15.0 seconds remaining? Do we reset or not?

The rule states 14 seconds and 15 seconds as the boundary for the kick rule. It does not state 14.0 seconds or 15.0 seconds. Another way of saying this is we do not need to be accurate to the 10s of seconds, we only need to be accurate to the second.

So for our purposes it does not matter where between 14.9999999999999999999999999999999.... and 14.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0001 the timing device is at. All we care is whether it says 14 (set it to 15) or 15 (do nothing).

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

The rule states 14 seconds and 15 seconds as the boundary for the kick rule. It does not state 14.0 seconds or 15.0 seconds.

Unless my education was extremely lacking, 14 = 14.0 and 15 = 15.0. So stating 14 is equivalent to stating 14.0. No?

All we care is whether it says 14 (set it to 15) or 15 (do nothing).

Once again, I agree. But that's not what the rule says.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Unless my education was extremely lacking, 14 = 14.0 and 15 = 15.0. So stating 14 is equivalent to stating 14.0. No?

No.

Google "significant digits" (you should have learned this in HS science class btw...). But the short answer is 14.0 states we care about tenths (seconds, meters, whatever) because we are able to know the value of the tenths. 14 states we are not able to know the value of the tenths so we go out of our way to ignore them.

So the way the rules under discussion are worded we are not to consider 10ths at all.

[Raymond]

2-14.6f. When an intentionally kicked ball occurs with 14 seconds or less remaining, set to 15 seconds

2-14.7Stop the timing device and continue time without a reset when play begins under the following circumstances:
b. When an intentionally kicked ball occurs with 15 seconds or more
remaining;

Men's Report...Last season, a rule change was implemented for an intentionally kicked ball that did not require the reset of the shot clock when it showed more than 15 seconds remaining. When 15 or fewer seconds remained, the shot clock was set to 15. To improve its application, the rule now states that when 14 or fewer seconds remain on the shot clock, it will be set to 15 seconds. Furthermore, when the intentional kick occurs with 15 or more seconds, there shall be no reset of the shot clock.

Nowhere in the NCAA rulebook is there mention of 10th's or 100ths of second in reference to the shot clock. If you see 14 reset it to 15, if says 15 or higher, don't reset it.

Please, do not purposely clog a drain just to show off your plumbing skills.

[Ron Giacoma]

Since the shot clock does not give/read in a tenth or hundredth of a second, go with the Rule as it reads. P.S. hundredth is different from 100's...... hundredth is 1/100 = one part of one hundred whereas, 100's = more than 99 parts as a whole and could mean 200 or 300 as a whole etc..

[truerookie]

WOW!

I look up the and the shot displays 14 I will have it reset to 15. I look up and it displays 15 that is what we are going with.

[mtbabo]

When the shot clock reads, "15", it could be "15.0 - 15.9". Once the clocks hits "14", it could be "14.0 - 14.9". Therefore when the clock is at "15" and there is a kicked ball, the clock is not reset to "15". The team could actually be losing "tenths" of a second, if the shot clock were to be reset when it was at "15".

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by mtbabo

When the shot clock reads, "15", it could be "15.0 - 15.9". Once the clocks hits "14", it could be "14.0 - 14.9". Therefore when the clock is at "15" and there is a kicked ball, the clock is not reset to "15". The team could actually be losing "tenths" of a second, if the shot clock were to be reset when it was at "15".

Not true. Shot clocks work differently than (most) game clocks. The shot clock will remain at 30 or 35 for one full second, then go to 29 or 34. So, the time remaining is always equal to or less than the time displayed. As soon as the clock hits zero, the horm sounds.

The game clock (most game clocks) will immediately go to 19:59 when started; the time remaining is always equal to or greater than the time displayed; the clock will remain at 0:00 for one second before the horn sounds.