NCAA Mens Kick Ball Rule Clarification Needed

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I admit, I'm trying to stay light-hearted in the face of being called an ***. But I'm not being cute. I honestly don't care what the convention is.

Hmmm...that's quite a bit me like saying that you shouldn't be insulted by being called an ***, I don't care what the convention is regarding the language.

Exactly 14 seconds equals exactly 14.0 seconds. That's the bottom line. To deny that is to make mathematics non-sensical.

There's your problem. When we're discussing measurments there is no such thing as EXACTLY 14 seconds. As I noted, 14 seconds might be 14.1 second, or 13.9 seconds. 14.0 seconds, OTOH, cannot be 14.1 seconds. Untill you see this it's useless to continue

To say that you don't care about extra decimal places is a far cry from saying that extra decimal places don't change the value of a given number. Let's say we time a runner in a sprint and our stopwatch measures to hundredths of a second. We time him at 9.85 seconds. I understand that we don't care about whatever extra thousandths he took to cross the line. But that doesn't mean that 9.85 actually equals the 9.851 that would've been measured on a slightly more accurate stopwatch.

gack.

Now listen closely...I'm gonna try and remain as calm as is humanly possible...

BUT WE F'ING DON'T HAVE A MORE ACCURATE F'ING STOPWATCH!!!!!!

OK, I feel better now....

Maybe so. But we can come to the conclusion that there are 14 seconds or more remaining.

Really? And how do you know there are not 13.9 seconds remaining? Certanly 13.9 is much closer to 14 than 14.5 is.

Jeez, I don't think I'm saying that at all!! When I say "there's 14 on the clock", I'm saying that I see "14" displayed. I'm not making any comment on 14.1 or 14.2 or whatever.

Yes you are. Remember this gem?

So what happens if the kicked ball occurs with more than 14.0 seconds but less than 15.0 seconds remaining? Do we reset or not?

And finally, and I do mean finally...

No. But if they did have it down to a single burger -- say, 324,571,609,212 -- I bet that's the same as 324,571,609,212.0 burgers.

You can bet as much as you like accurate to thousanths of cents but you would be wrong. Simply beacuse the zero in the decimal point of your second number means there's a possibility that tenths of a burger were sold but we don't know what that fraction is in your first number.

They MIGHT be the same. OTOH they might NOT be the same. Not enough information in the first number to conclude.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

When we're discussing measurments there is no such thing as EXACTLY 14 seconds.

Well, you said you were done and that's just as well; because we're clearly talking at cross-purposes. There clearly is such a thing as exactly 14 seconds. There are very precise definitions of what a second is. You add the caveat, "when we're discussing measurements". And that must make a difference, but for the life of me I don't see what it is.

There is obviously time that passes between the point at which a clock shows 15 and the point at which the clock subsequently shows 14. This is undeniable, regardless of how many significant digits you want to include. The kicked ball rule doesn't tell us what to do during that time. This is also undeniable. The rule would be clearer if it read, "If the shot clock displays 14 seconds or less. . ." This is the one and only point that I really wanted to make in this whole thread.

So I'll be done now, too. (That's "too" with three significant letters. )

[Jurassic Referee]

[SmokeEater]

Definative measurements (14.0) require definitive measuring devices (not possible with shot clocks as we know them). If a Stop Watch was used as a timer then stopping the device at exactly 14.0 would IMHO be equal to 14 otherwise how could you possibly tell.