NCAA Mens Kick Ball Rule Clarification Needed

[wfd21]

This years NCAA rule book.Page 60/61. 2-14.6f, 2-14.7b

[Scrapper1]

mtbabo is exactly correct. NCAA 2-14-6f says that when a kicked ball occurs with "14 seconds or less", we reset to 15. NCAA 2-14-7b says that when a kicked ball occurs with "15 seconds or more", there's no reset.

So what happens if the kicked ball occurs with more than 14.0 seconds but less than 15.0 seconds remaining? Do we reset or not?

It would be better if the rule said if the shot clock "shows" 14 seconds or less, then reset it to 15. That's what it means, but that's not what it says.

[mtbabo]

That was the main point in my question as far ask not knowing how much time was really on the shot clock. As we all know .9 or .1 can be a big deal when it comes to last second shots. A shot clock with 14.9 or a shot clock with 14.1 can make a big difference.

[Raymond]

If the shot clock say 14.whatever, you reset it to 15. If it says 15 or any number higher than 15, you don't reset it.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

If the shot clock say 14.whatever, you reset it to 15. If it says 15 or any number higher than 15, you don't reset it.

I think we all agree that's the intent of the rule. But that's not what the rule says. That's what the original poster is pointing out.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

mtbabo is exactly correct. NCAA 2-14-6f says that when a kicked ball occurs with "14 seconds or less", we reset to 15. NCAA 2-14-7b says that when a kicked ball occurs with "15 seconds or more", there's no reset.

So what happens if the kicked ball occurs with more than 14.0 seconds but less than 15.0 seconds remaining? Do we reset or not?

The rule states 14 seconds and 15 seconds as the boundary for the kick rule. It does not state 14.0 seconds or 15.0 seconds. Another way of saying this is we do not need to be accurate to the 10s of seconds, we only need to be accurate to the second.

So for our purposes it does not matter where between 14.9999999999999999999999999999999.... and 14.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0001 the timing device is at. All we care is whether it says 14 (set it to 15) or 15 (do nothing).

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

The rule states 14 seconds and 15 seconds as the boundary for the kick rule. It does not state 14.0 seconds or 15.0 seconds.

Unless my education was extremely lacking, 14 = 14.0 and 15 = 15.0. So stating 14 is equivalent to stating 14.0. No?

All we care is whether it says 14 (set it to 15) or 15 (do nothing).

Once again, I agree. But that's not what the rule says.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Unless my education was extremely lacking, 14 = 14.0 and 15 = 15.0. So stating 14 is equivalent to stating 14.0. No?

No.

Google "significant digits" (you should have learned this in HS science class btw...). But the short answer is 14.0 states we care about tenths (seconds, meters, whatever) because we are able to know the value of the tenths. 14 states we are not able to know the value of the tenths so we go out of our way to ignore them.

So the way the rules under discussion are worded we are not to consider 10ths at all.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

No.

So you're telling me that $14 is different from $14.00? If the pricetag says "$14" and you give the checkout girl $14.00, you expect to get change?

Google "significant digits" (you should have learned this in HS science class btw...).

I did, but I readily admit that I'd forgotten all about significant digits. But from what I read on Google, and what I remember from HS science class, the significant digits to the right of the decimal point -- which are not followed by non-zero digits -- do not change the value of the number.

I understand your point, but I doubt the rulemakers were considering significant digits when they re-wrote the rule this year. I think what they meant was if the shot clock "displays" 14 seconds or less, reset it. But I disagree with you if you want to say that's what the rule actually says now.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

So you're telling me that $14 is different from $14.00? If the pricetag says "$14" and you give the checkout girl $14.00, you expect to get change?

Don't be an ***. Our money system is accurate to 2 digits simply because that's the smallest coin the government mints. The "accuracy" of money is completely arbitrary. If the government wanted to mint coins that are worth tenths of cents (kinda small, maybe put your picture on it?) then it would be accurate to that value. Of course electronic trading can give change of very small values...but again it's irrelevant because money is not something we measure in a physical sense. As time is.

Getting back to the thread, shot clocks are accurate to units, ie any measurement smaller than that is not valid. That is a consequence of the fact that 10ths are not available to us and we cannot know where between the integer values the timing device is.

As for where the significant digits occur - if this concept was limited to decimals only it would be called significant decimals, not significant digits.

Do you think that every measurement is accurate to tenths of units or better?

[Raymond]

2-14.6f. When an intentionally kicked ball occurs with 14 seconds or less remaining, set to 15 seconds

2-14.7Stop the timing device and continue time without a reset when play begins under the following circumstances:
b. When an intentionally kicked ball occurs with 15 seconds or more
remaining;

Men's Report...Last season, a rule change was implemented for an intentionally kicked ball that did not require the reset of the shot clock when it showed more than 15 seconds remaining. When 15 or fewer seconds remained, the shot clock was set to 15. To improve its application, the rule now states that when 14 or fewer seconds remain on the shot clock, it will be set to 15 seconds. Furthermore, when the intentional kick occurs with 15 or more seconds, there shall be no reset of the shot clock.

Nowhere in the NCAA rulebook is there mention of 10th's or 100ths of second in reference to the shot clock. If you see 14 reset it to 15, if says 15 or higher, don't reset it.

Please, do not purposely clog a drain just to show off your plumbing skills.