"You can't coach"

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

Last night, JV game. We got our press clicking in the second quarter and ran off a bunch of points in a row. The opposing coach was getting frustrated and taking it out on one official in particular. After he called a shooting foul on one of her players, she said something that set him off. He didn't issue a T, but came over to her and had a conversation that lasted about 30 seconds. I heard both "you can't coach" and "you are the worst coach I've seen."

Granted, I couldn't hear every word. And some of the coach's shouted comments from earlier were T-worthy. But I still couldn't believe what he said.

At the half, as the officials were getting their jackets, the opposing V coach was there (benches were first row of bleachers, right next to table) and she said something that caused him to get his whistle out of his pocket, blow it, and issue a T on her. After he left, she told us she said "that was the most unprofessionial thing I've ever heard a ref say."

On top of it all, after starting the 3rd quarter with two FTs, we got the ball but he said the arrow (pointing our way) should change, and he allowed the opposing coach to retain her coaching box privileges.

There was another confrontation AFTER the game (as the handshake lines were forming), as he came up to her with his whistle out, trying to hand it to her. Secondhand, I heard he said something like "you want to ref?" and she said something like "get out of my face, don't talk to me."

I've been coaching for 11 years, and he has been a JV ref the whole time. Dozens of newer officials have moved past him into the varsity ranks, and last night I think I saw why. I'm not absolving the opposing coaches from blame in any way. But that piece of officiating was the worst I've ever seen.

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

I almost forgot...

I went early and watched the freshman game, sitting near our team's bench. Our coach was mad about something, and after getting his comments out, the official looked right at him and calmly said "I respect your opinion" and hustled away.

That's good game management, in my opinion.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by A Pennsylvania Coach

I almost forgot...

I went early and watched the freshman game, sitting near our team's bench. Our coach was mad about something, and after getting his comments out, the official looked right at him and calmly said "I respect your opinion" and hustled away.

That's good game management, in my opinion.

That's a lack of balls imo.

Which explains why you're a coach and I'm an official......

What's the difference between your coach "getting his comments out" and the official that you're b!tching about "getting his comments out"? Why is one OK and the other one wrong?

[rockyroad]

So the coach was an a$$...that doesn't mean that we as officials get to be a$$es too...T the coach and then stay away from him/her. There is NO reason for that official to have gone over there and made those types of comments - and A Penn. Coach has been posting here long enough for me to take what he says at face value...like it or not, we are held to a higher standard than coaches - at least as far as what we can say during games. If I don't like what the coach is saying/doing, I can deal with it in the proper way - this official chose to handle it in a totally improper way!

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

So the coach was an a$$...that doesn't mean that we as officials get to be a$$es too...T the coach and then stay away from him/her. There is NO reason for that official to have gone over there and made those types of comments - and A Penn. Coach has been posting here long enough for me to take what he says at face value...like it or not, we are held to a higher standard than coaches - at least as far as what we can say during games. If I don't like what the coach is saying/doing, I can deal with it in the proper way - this official chose to handle it in a totally improper way!

Who are you arguing with? I can't find any post in this thread that suggests otherwise.

[Texas Aggie]

PA coach: did you by any chance post this on a coaches forum highlighting the behavior of the coach(es)?

Just wondering.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

So the coach was an a$$...that doesn't mean that we as officials get to be a$$es too...T the coach and then stay away from him/her. There is NO reason for that official to have gone over there and made those types of comments - and A Penn. Coach has been posting here long enough for me to take what he says at face value...like it or not, we are held to a higher standard than coaches - at least as far as what we can say during games. If I don't like what the coach is saying/doing, I can deal with it in the proper way - this official chose to handle it in a totally improper way!

I agree with you about the official, but I do not have to like the double standard. Should officials not say things like this? Of course they should not. But I will say I am a little tired of all the complaining about what officials do and coaches are allowed to call us everything short of a child of God and we as officials are always suppose to sit back and do nothing.

Also this is not about for me how long Penn. Coach has been here or how liked he is. If he is so concerned about the professionalism of the official, he should be more offended by the behavior of the coach who did not have to say anything to this official. If you say or do certain things, you will get responses that may or may not be right as it relates to professionalism, but are to be expected. Like Chris Rock said, "I might not agree...but I understand."

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

nothing.

Also this is not about for me how long Penn. Coach has been here or how liked he is. If he is so concerned about the professionalism of the official, he should be more offended by the behavior of the coach who did not have to say anything to this official.

Agree. Two wrongs don't make a right.

And neither of those is really any different than a coach "getting his comments out" either imo. If a coach wants to ask a question about a call, play, etc. in a civil manner, fine. He should receive an answer, and be shown the same respect while doing so. If a coach wants to comment on the officiating however, then he's got no complaint at all if he gets his yappy butt "T"d up. It's NO different than an official commenting on the coach. Neither should be done.

[Ref Daddy]

A tough situation that got entirely out of hand. I bet all party's could play the game tape backwards and find the roots of this dialogue that made both coach and referee look less than professional in the eyes of the players and fans.

This makes me further appreciate my ability to call a "T" on a coach that is effecting my ability to call the best game I can - BEFORE it grows nasty.

Sorry PA Coach - if the offending referee is any good at all - I'm certian that (s)he regrets the outcome.

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I agree with you about the official, but I do not have to like the double standard. Should officials not say things like this? Of course they should not. But I will say I am a little tired of all the complaining about what officials do and coaches are allowed to call us everything short of a child of God and we as officials are always suppose to sit back and do nothing.

Also this is not about for me how long Penn. Coach has been here or how liked he is. If he is so concerned about the professionalism of the official, he should be more offended by the behavior of the coach who did not have to say anything to this official. If you say or do certain things, you will get responses that may or may not be right as it relates to professionalism, but are to be expected. Like Chris Rock said, "I might not agree...but I understand."

Peace

There is absolutely a double standard. I don't think it is right or fair. It does exist without a doubt. Somehow over the years it has become okay for coaches to get away from their role as teacher and become advocate. It is understandable that coaches are going to make unnecessary comments from time to time--they have an investment in the outcome of the game while the officials do not. It doesn't make it right, and I'm certainly not defending the actions of the coaches. Who says I wasn't offended by the actions of the coaches? I just didn't focus on that because this is an officials' forum.

If I were to rank the actions of this official among the actions of all adults' actions I've seen at basketball games, it wouldn't be #1--not even in the top 1000--but it is the poorest thing I've ever heard an official say. That's why I thought it would be of interest to this forum. For those of you who got that, cool. For those of you who didn't, that's cool too. No need to rip me or my integrity (orangeump).

[mick]

Originally Posted by A Pennsylvania Coach

....But that piece of officiating was the worst I've ever seen.

You gotta get out more.
You ain't seen me work.

[bigdogrunnin]

Oh, the stories I could tell . . . about the time I tossed a coach, and my partner told the coach it was OK to come back AND coach his team WITH his coaching box privileges (yes, it was very early in my career and very late in his). Or the time I watched in AWE as a coach completely berated a VARSITY official in a VARSITY contest, calling him things that would get blacked out here, and he knodded his head and walked away. Or, my VARSITY contest where my co-official TOSSED the coach, then decided he didn't want to, so he took back one of the technicals AND told the coach that he could have his coaching box privileges back if he was nice the rest of the game. Oh yes, it true!

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by A Pennsylvania Coach

I heard both "you can't coach" and "you are the worst coach I've seen."

I'm certain that you missed the previous part to those sentences that went something like, "Please stick to the play and don't get personal. How would you like it if I said ..."

[cmathews]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I'm certain that you missed the previous part to those sentences that went something like, "Please stick to the play and don't get personal. How would you like it if I said ..."

Spoken with the grace and good judgement of a true moderator

[GarthB]

Coach:

I've often dreamed about something like this.

Coaches can whine and complain and cast dispersions on a referees ability, but our code of ethics prevents us from doing likewise.

Coaches can say "That was a terrible call", but we can never say, "Coach, your play calling is terrible."

Probably out of frustration, this guy broke the code. I agree he shouldn't have, but I think your reaction is equally over the top.