Lost a sneaker

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I think the application of this should have nothing to do with the level. Lower levels need to know what is going to happen when they work the varsity level ball. This is not a situation in my opinion that warrants completely different applications because of the level you are working.

Peace

Sure it does. Tell me you would call a 4th grade girls game exactly the same as a varsity? Making some 10 year old slip on her socks and potentially get hurt doesn't do anything for her and what she should expect further up.

I'm not talking about all the rules, just in this sitch.

Not all of these kids are going to the NCAA. Common sense rules.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Ref in PA

In my area, we have been instructed to let play continue unless the shoe could cause injury. These are big boys and girls, they need to take responsibility.

That's exactly what we instruct our officials to do. The idea is to have it handled uniformly by all officials also.

[mj]

I play on.

We had a situation earlier this year in a girl's varsity game. Girl loses her shoe while playing defense and throws the shoe toward the bench. They gain possession and are running their offense. She gets the ball goes to the hoop and gets fouled. She proceeds to the ft line still w/o her shoe on. "Um, you can put your shoe on before we shoot these."

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by PYRef

Sure it does. Tell me you would call a 4th grade girls game exactly the same as a varsity? Making some 10 year old slip on her socks and potentially get hurt doesn't do anything for her and what she should expect further up.

I will do the same at all levels as it relates to this issue. Now I do not normally work 4th grade girls games so I cannot tell you what those games are like as the norm for me.

Originally Posted by PYRef

I'm not talking about all the rules, just in this sitch.

Not all of these kids are going to the NCAA. Common sense rules.

Fourth graders know how to tie their shoes. As a matter of fact many shoes are not even held together based on a shoe laces. You may say it is common sense, but I would disagree. If a kid cannot tie their shoe laces then they probably do not need to be playing.

Peace

The shoe doesn't have to be untied to come off either. I agree I'm not going to baby some kid because he can't tie his laces or his mommy didn't pull the velcro tight.
But if it's a low level game and doesn't significantly disrupt the flow, (ie: in this case where it was after a made basket), I'm letting the kid get the shoe on.
Fast break or in the middle of a play... we're waiting for a dead ball.

[tomegun]

One thing nobody has mentioned is the fact that this happens way too much. When I was a kid, my main goal was to play - in a game, outside, on the playground, etc. I didn't have time for a shoestring or my shoe coming off; I was focused on playing as much as possible.
I think it is so idiotic that being/looking cool with shoes untied, velcro straps (on shoes) unfastened, shirts out and the like is so important. I know we are all officials and look at this the same, but let me take a minute to scream.

IT DOESN'T HELP YOU ANY SO STOP DOING IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by PYRef

The shoe doesn't have to be untied to come off either. I agree I'm not going to baby some kid because he can't tie his laces or his mommy didn't pull the velcro tight.
But if it's a low level game and doesn't significantly disrupt the flow, (ie: in this case where it was after a made basket), I'm letting the kid get the shoe on.
Fast break or in the middle of a play... we're waiting for a dead ball.

I realize all of this and if you want to stop the game that is your right. I am not going to stop the game if I have anything to say about it unless other factors are at play as I and other stated. This is why we get paid the big bucks.

Peace

[iref4him]

Originally Posted by PYRef

Sure it does. Tell me you would call a 4th grade girls game exactly the same as a varsity? Making some 10 year old slip on her socks and potentially get hurt doesn't do anything for her and what she should expect further up.

I'm not talking about all the rules, just in this sitch.

Not all of these kids are going to the NCAA. Common sense rules.

Where do you think the kids at the higher levels or coaches think that the game should be stopped for a shoe? We do it at the lower levels and it continues up until the varisty level. I understand with lower levels, but calling it like you would at the varsity level may not hurt. Additionally, most 4th grade games only one or two of the players handle the ball - so it would slow up anyway.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Is there any common sense and fair play reason why you WOULDN'T stop the game?

No Rich, there is no more common sense. I'll post it again:

OBITUARY: THE SAD PASSING OF COMMON SENSE

Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape. He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as knowing when to come in out of the rain, why the early bird gets the worm, life isn't always fair, and maybe it was my fault.

Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you earn) and reliable parenting strategies (adults, not children, are in charge). His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a six-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouth wash after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition.

Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the job they failed to do in disciplining their unruly children. It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer Panadol, sun lotion or a sticky plaster to a student, but could not inform the parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.

Common sense lost the will to live as the Ten Commandments became contraband; churches became businesses; and criminals received better treatment than their victims.

Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a burglar in your own home and the burglar can sue you for assault.

Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.

Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents, Truth and Trust; his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son, Reason. He is survived by three stepbrothers; I Know My Rights, Someone Else is to Blame, and I'm A Victim. Not many attended - his funeral because so few realized he was gone. If you still remember him, pass this on. If not, join the majority and do nothing.


SOOOOOOOOOOOOO, stop using common sense. You could be arrested for robbing graves.

[mplagrow]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

If that's the sole reason, I probably wouldn't stop the game.

Oh, brother.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Ref in PA

In my area, we have been instructed to let play continue unless the shoe could cause injury. These are big boys and girls, they need to take responsibility.

That's an odd thought. You have a player in his socks, which, if they are anything like the socks I wear, are quite slick. This player is attempting to play basketball on a waxed wood floor. And you don't see that as a situation that can cause injury?

At any rate, in the OP there was no play to continue. The ball was dead. Stop the clock and get the problem fixed.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

You have a player in his socks, which, if they are anything like the socks I wear, are quite slick. This player is attempting to play basketball on a waxed wood floor. And you don't see that as a situation that can cause injury?

Nope, I see it as a situation where the player can stop and put their shoe back on if they feel like doing so. Nobody's stopping them from doing that.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Nope, I see it as a situation where the player can stop and put their shoe back on if they feel like doing so. Nobody's stopping them from doing that.

Sure, but they're not going to do that. They are going to run back on defense, slip, crack their noggin, and watch their attorny sue you for more money than exists in all the heavens and the earth.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Sure, but they're not going to do that. They are going to run back on defense, slip, crack their noggin, and watch their attorny sue you for more money than exists in all the heavens and the earth.

This is why so many people get sued. The player has every opportunity to stop and put the shoe back on. Why should an official get sued because they don't stop play to let them do that? Should that be part of our pregame instructions, "If your shoe comes off, do not continue to play. Stop and put the shoe back on."

Give me a break! Maybe I need to be kinder and gentler or maybe I don't.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Sure, but they're not going to do that. They are going to run back on defense, slip, crack their noggin, and watch their attorny sue you for more money than exists in all the heavens and the earth.

Then they should learn how to keep their shoe on all the time.

You make it sound like we are going to allow a shoe to be off for several minutes. All the team has to do once they get the ball back or stop a drive and I think most of us will stop the clock. Stop being so melodramatic about something that will likely never happen the way you say it will. For those that do not know, basketball was found out to have more injuries than even football and many other sports at the HS level. I will be that most of them did not occur with the shoes off. I had a kid blow out his knee (I heard a dislocation of the knee cap) and he had both shoes on.

Peace