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-   -   offense penalized (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/30642-offense-penalized.html)

deecee Fri Jan 05, 2007 03:31pm

Quote:

Do not have my case book with me. COuld you provdie a few detail? Remeber, the defense commits a violation and the defense is penalized for that.
you finally make sense

Adam Fri Jan 05, 2007 03:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by d1ref2b
Wouldn't that be a T and play would resume at POI? Offense not penalized. They get 2 shots and the ball back.

No, leaving the court for an unauthorized reason is a violation under NFHS rules. Failing to return directly and immediately is a T if the player had left the court for an authorized reason. If the defense commits this violation in or near the backcourt while the offense is about to shoot an uncontested layup, and an official blows his whistle to prove he knows the rule, the offense gets penalized.
And single Ts are never POI in NFHS.

rainmaker Fri Jan 05, 2007 03:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by d1ref2b
The offense isn't penalized. However, this is not the play in question.:confused: Come on guys. You are all way to smart. I will give you a few more tries. I think it is relevant enough to warrant a rules change and have addressed it with Mary Struckhoff and our State Association.

Well, there aren't very many defensive violations. Stepping oob to get around a screen, kicking the ball, BI and GT. The only one I can think of that might be used to penalize the offense would be stepping oob to stop an imminent drive and shot, but in that case we are authorized to delay the violation call until afther the offensive play is completed.

d1ref2b Fri Jan 05, 2007 03:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee
you finally make sense

I was wrong the second defense should be the offense.

Hint: The violation that the defense commits is a violation that usually only the defense commits.

Adam Fri Jan 05, 2007 03:35pm

Kick ball during an end-line throwin when the ensuing throwin spot is on the sideline rather than the endline.

d1ref2b Fri Jan 05, 2007 03:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells
No, leaving the court for an unauthorized reason is a violation under NFHS rules. Failing to return directly and immediately is a T if the player had left the court for an authorized reason. If the defense commits this violation in or near the backcourt while the offense is about to shoot an uncontested layup, and an official blows his whistle to prove he knows the rule, the offense gets penalized.
And single Ts are never POI in NFHS.

I agree that the offense is "penalized" in this situation but, this is not it. I am looking for penalized by rule.

mick Fri Jan 05, 2007 03:35pm

"A player or team should not be permitted an advantage which is not intended by a rule."

To answer your question: Dunno. http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/fr...smiley-013.gif

d1ref2b Fri Jan 05, 2007 03:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Kick ball during an end-line throwin when the ensuing throwin spot is on the sideline rather than the endline.


No, but getting close

refnjoe Fri Jan 05, 2007 03:39pm

Okay, I give. What's the rule?

Adam Fri Jan 05, 2007 03:39pm

The only other one I can think of is a double-violation on a free throw, but I doubt if that's what you're considering.

rainmaker Fri Jan 05, 2007 03:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainmaker
Well, there aren't very many defensive violations. Stepping oob to get around a screen, kicking the ball, BI and GT. The only one I can think of that might be used to penalize the offense would be stepping oob to stop an imminent drive and shot, but in that case we are authorized to delay the violation call until afther the offensive play is completed.

You know, the rule book actually says we can completely ignore this violation. So even after the offensive play is completed, if a shot is made and missed, or if the ball is pulled back from the basket and not shot, sounds like ref can just ignore the violation and doesn't have to bring the ball back to where the violation was committed.

Jurassic Referee Fri Jan 05, 2007 03:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by d1ref2b
Do not have my case book with me. COuld you provdie a few detail? Remeber, the defense commits a violation and the defense is penalized for that.

From the case play:

The score is tied 60-60 with with four seconds remaining in the game. A1 has a fast break and is near the free throw line on his/her way to an uncontested lay-up. B5 running down the court near the sideline, intentionally runs out of bounds in the hopes of getting a leaving-the-floor violation called.
<b>RULING:</b> B5's intentional violation should be ignored and A1's activity should continue without interruption.COMMENT: Non-contact, away from the ball illegal defensive violations(i.e. excessively swinging the elbows, leaving the floor for an unauthorized reason) specifically designed to stop the clock near the end of a period or to take away a clear advantageous position by the offense shall be temporarily ignored. The defensive team should not benefit from the tactic. If time is not a factor, the defense should be penalized with the violation or a technical foul for unsporting behavior.

Note the words "temporarily ignored". If it happened in the middle of a period, you delay the whistle for the violation until after A1 has scored, then whistle B5 for the violation and give team A the ball back for a throw-in.

rainmaker Fri Jan 05, 2007 03:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
From the case play:

The score is tied 60-60 with with four seconds remaining in the game. A1 has a fast break and is near the free throw line on his/her way to an uncontested lay-up. B5 running down the court near the sideline, intentionally runs out of bounds in the hopes of getting a leaving-the-floor violation called.
<b>RULING:</b> B5's intentional violation should be ignored and A1's activity should continue without interruption.COMMENT: Non-contact, away from the ball illegal defensive violations(i.e. excessively swinging the elbows, leaving the floor for an unauthorized reason) specifically designed to stop the clock near the end of a period or to take away a clear advantageous position by the offense shall be temporarily ignored. The defensive team should not benefit from the tactic. If time is not a factor, the defense should be penalized with the violation or a technical foul for unsporting behavior.

Note the words "temporarily ignored". If it happened in the middle of a period, you delay the whistle for the violation until after A1 has scored, then whistle B5 for the violation and give team A the ball back for a throw-in.


Hm... Comment says, "temporarily ignored", but the word "temporarily" doesn't appear in the ruling.

So if offense went down and shot just after the defender stepped out to try to stop the play, but offense missed the shot, but rebounded, would you keep delaying the violation penalty? Wait until B rebounds or steals and then call it?

Jurassic Referee Fri Jan 05, 2007 03:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells
If the defense commits this violation in or near the backcourt while the offense is about to shoot an uncontested layup, and an official blows his whistle to prove he knows the rule, the offense gets penalized.

See the case book play that I cited, Snaqs.

Daryl H. Long Fri Jan 05, 2007 03:44pm

Must be player control foul by airborne shooter and then there is basket interference or goaltending by defense.


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