What would you do....

[Teigan]

I was watching a game recently.....the coach was a plain a$$....right from the tipoff, and as a result got whacked early! Fine for about another 2 minutes, and then goes off the wall about a foul that was called. Gets whacked again. See ya later coach. Head coach won't leave the gym, and continues to berate the officials. One of the refs told the Asst. Coach that he needed to get a handle on his bench, and remove the head coach. Asst. Coach then started beaking, and got whacked. Asst. Coach did not really take a hint-and keeps going off. Gets whacked again. Good bye Asst. Coach Captain, then starts going off about the officials, and how they are picking on the team and the coaches.....WHACK!!!....Gets right in the calling officials face (I thought he was going to clock him).....WHACK!!!....and now the captain gets to join the coaches in the locker room to ***** about the officiating. Officials at this point started giving "Non-Contact Flagrant Fouls," I have yet to find these in the rulebook. This resulted in 2 more ejections, And now were shooting 16 shots.......with a full bench and coaches, playing against i think there was 6 or 7 on the bench at this point. I think they handled it well and was wondering what you would have done?

[lorenj]

Originally Posted by Teigan

I was watching a game recently.....the coach was a plain a$$....right from the tipoff, and as a result got whacked early! Fine for about another 2 minutes, and then goes off the wall about a foul that was called. Gets whacked again. See ya later coach. Head coach won't leave the gym, and continues to berate the officials. One of the refs told the Asst. Coach that he needed to get a handle on his bench, and remove the head coach. Asst. Coach then started beaking, and got whacked. Asst. Coach did not really take a hint-and keeps going off. Gets whacked again. Good bye Asst. Coach Captain, then starts going off about the officials, and how they are picking on the team and the coaches.....WHACK!!!....Gets right in the calling officials face (I thought he was going to clock him).....WHACK!!!....and now the captain gets to join the coaches in the locker room to ***** about the officiating. Officials at this point started giving "Non-Contact Flagrant Fouls," I have yet to find these in the rulebook. This resulted in 2 more ejections, And now were shooting 16 shots.......with a full bench and coaches, playing against i think there was 6 or 7 on the bench at this point. I think they handled it well and was wondering what you would have done?

From your description, it sounds like the R should have forfeited the game when the head coach refused to leave, and definitely when the assistant coach refused to take control of the situation. Rule 5-4-1 states:

"...The referee may also forfeit a game if any player, team member, bench personnel or coach fails to comply with any technical-foul penalty, or repeatedly commits technical-foul infractions or other acts which make a travesty of the game..."

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by lorenj

From your description, it sounds like the R should have forfeited the game when the head coach refused to leave, and definitely when the assistant coach refused to take control of the situation. Rule 5-4-1 states:

"...The referee may also forfeit a game if any player, team member, bench personnel or coach fails to comply with any technical-foul penalty, or repeatedly commits technical-foul infractions or other acts which make a travesty of the game..."

...

Agreed.

[Adam]

Let the asst. coach know he has very little time to remove the HC from the gym or the game will be forfeit.
"Non-contact flagrant fouls" sounds very much like they just issued flagrant technical fouls after that.

What level ball is this?

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by lorenj

From your description, it sounds like the R should have forfeited the game when the head coach refused to leave, and definitely when the assistant coach refused to take control of the situation. Rule 5-4-1 states:

"...The referee may also forfeit a game if any player, team member, bench personnel or coach fails to comply with any technical-foul penalty, or repeatedly commits technical-foul infractions or other acts which make a travesty of the game..."

I agree also. Best not to get into a pi$$ing contest with them. When the HC initially refuses to leave simply turn to the table & firmly and clearly say "Timer, start a 30 second clock. Scorekeeper, if the DQ'd coach has not left the gym by the time the 30 seconds has expired, then the game is forfeit."

Stay away from the benches - you & partner go stand in the jump circle facing the table. Give cooler heads a chance to prevail......but only one. That said, if the AC or anyone else subsequently does anything to escalate the situation - immediate forfeit.

I can guarantee if anything like the situation described occurred at the HS level in our area it would result in serious suspensions and hefty fines........

[budjones05]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

I agree also. Best not to get into a pi$$ing contest with them. When the HC initially refuses to leave simply turn to the table & firmly and clearly say "Timer, start a 30 second clock. Scorekeeper, if the DQ'd coach has not left the gym by the time the 30 seconds has expired, then the game is forfeit."

Stay away from the benches - you & partner go stand in the jump circle facing the table. Give cooler heads a chance to prevail......but only one. That said, if the AC or anyone else subsequently does anything to escalate the situation - immediate forfeit.

I can guarantee if anything like the situation described occurred at the HS level in our area it would result in serious suspensions and hefty fines........

Where was game management when all this was going on?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Teigan

Officials at this point started giving "Non-Contact Flagrant Fouls," I have yet to find these in the rulebook.

Say what?

The relevant definitions have been in the rule book forever. They're basic and the officials were completely right in using them. NCAA rule 4-26-5 and NFHS 4-19-4.

That game should have been forfeited before they got to the captain. It doesn't sound like the refs did a very good job handling the situation. If it escalated that bad all the way down the line, I would tend to think the refs actions only added fuel to the fire.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by PYRef

That game should have been forfeited before they got to the captain. It doesn't sound like the refs did a very good job handling the situation. If it escalated that bad all the way down the line, I would tend to think the refs actions only added fuel to the fire.

I have an arbitrary question. What level of basketball do you officiate?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by PYRef

It doesn't sound like the refs did a very good job handling the situation. If it escalated that bad all the way down the line, I would tend to think the refs actions only added fuel to the fire.

Are you serious? You're blaming the officials for that crap?

Lah me......

I didn't blame the officials for that crap. But can you honestly say that issuing 8 technicals and throwing out half the team was the right way to handle it?
Give me a break.

Tomegun, I've said it before that I am currently doing 8th grade games. This is my first year officiating. So what does that have to do with anything other than to try and belittle my opinion? I love the way you guys get on your high horse and ask that question as soon as someone disagrees. What level do you do?? God forbid someone questions the actions of thy lord god Referee. I guess you can't even post here if you're not a D-1 or Varsity official. That's a great way to encourage new officials to get in the game. Don't forget, you were all there once too.

I've been on both sides of the court, coach and official. And after 20+ years in law enforcement, I've seen enough to know that situations that go downhill fast can many times be exacerbated by the actions of the ones in charge.

Jurassic, I wasn't there and don't know exactly what happened in this case, but according to the OP I think the officials were wrong (there, I said it!) for allowing the game to even continue. You would have forfeited that game long before that too, so don't even tell me that you think it was handled properly.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Teigan

I was watching a game recently.....the coach was a plain a$$....right from the tipoff, and as a result got whacked early! Fine for about another 2 minutes, and then goes off the wall about a foul that was called. Gets whacked again. See ya later coach. Head coach won't leave the gym, and continues to berate the officials. One of the refs told the Asst. Coach that he needed to get a handle on his bench, and remove the head coach. Asst. Coach then started beaking, and got whacked. Asst. Coach did not really take a hint-and keeps going off. Gets whacked again. Good bye Asst. Coach Captain, then starts going off about the officials, and how they are picking on the team and the coaches.....WHACK!!!....Gets right in the calling officials face (I thought he was going to clock him).....WHACK!!!....and now the captain gets to join the coaches in the locker room to ***** about the officiating. Officials at this point started giving "Non-Contact Flagrant Fouls," I have yet to find these in the rulebook. This resulted in 2 more ejections, And now were shooting 16 shots.......with a full bench and coaches, playing against i think there was 6 or 7 on the bench at this point. I think they handled it well and was wondering what you would have done?

I would have forfeited the game after the asst. coach started being stupid.

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by Teigan

I was watching a game recently.....the coach was a plain a$$....right from the tipoff, and as a result got whacked early! Fine for about another 2 minutes, and then goes off the wall about a foul that was called. Gets whacked again. See ya later coach. Head coach won't leave the gym, and continues to berate the officials. One of the refs told the Asst. Coach that he needed to get a handle on his bench, and remove the head coach. Asst. Coach then started beaking, and got whacked. Asst. Coach did not really take a hint-and keeps going off. Gets whacked again. Good bye Asst. Coach Captain, then starts going off about the officials, and how they are picking on the team and the coaches.....WHACK!!!....Gets right in the calling officials face (I thought he was going to clock him).....WHACK!!!....and now the captain gets to join the coaches in the locker room to ***** about the officiating. Officials at this point started giving "Non-Contact Flagrant Fouls," I have yet to find these in the rulebook. This resulted in 2 more ejections, And now were shooting 16 shots.......with a full bench and coaches, playing against i think there was 6 or 7 on the bench at this point. I think they handled it well and was wondering what you would have done?

I guess your game report was off the hook!

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by PYRef

I didn't blame the officials for that crap. But can you honestly say that issuing 8 technicals and throwing out half the team was the right way to handle it?
Give me a break.

Tomegun, I've said it before that I am currently doing 8th grade games. This is my first year officiating. So what does that have to do with anything other than to try and belittle my opinion? I love the way you guys get on your high horse and ask that question as soon as someone disagrees. What level do you do??

I asked you this question because of the following:

1. Too many people are quick to say what they would do in a game and have never been at that level and/or in that situation. You are a perfect example of that. Doing 8th grade games does not compare to a good JV game let alone a varsity game.
2. I'm not trying to belittle your opinion. I'm trying to put your opinion into perspective. How would you feel if a rookie cop stood up in a meeting and said what should be done during a major drug bust or arrest? I thought so!

Originally Posted by PYRef

God forbid someone questions the actions of thy lord god Referee. I guess you can't even post here if you're not a D-1 or Varsity official. That's a great way to encourage new officials to get in the game. Don't forget, you were all there once too.

And after 20+ years in law enforcement, I've seen enough to know that situations that go downhill fast can many times be exacerbated by the actions of the ones in charge.

Unfortunately, this isn't law enforcement, this is officiating. One of the hardest things in officiating is for a successful adult to begin officiating. That person may have experienced success in other areas of life, but this is officiating and you are at the "bottom of the totem pole" when you start out.

Also, I was there once in my career. Back in that day, we were seen and not heard. In other words, I listened, learned and shut up! I didn't have any or enough experience so I didn't have any bold statements concerning what should be done. That doesn't happen enough anymore.
Since I have been officiating for quite some time I have developed a sense when someone is talking out the side of their neck. You should give me credit for this since I was right on point with you and correctly sniffed out the fact that you made bold statements but you have never been in a position to experience what you are saying should have been done. I assume you wouldn't stand for that in law enforcement so why should I stand for it in officiating?

[Junker]

Originally Posted by PYRef

I didn't blame the officials for that crap. But can you honestly say that issuing 8 technicals and throwing out half the team was the right way to handle it?
Give me a break.

Here's the way I've always described these situations. We don't give you technicals, we assess them when they are earned. If it takes 8, I'd probably forfeit the game. The team obviously isn't there to play basketball. Did the officials get a little quicker with the T as the game went on? I'm pretty sure most of us would. But the coaches and players should have figured out they couldn't adress the officials in that manner. BTW, who was left on the bench after both the head and assistant coach were gone? I'd be awfully tempted to call it at this point.