Ready and waiting with the T

[jeffpea]

Tomegun -- Keep in mind that using "we" is a lot less accusatory or confrontational than "you".

Here's a situation to illustrate my point......Team B coach (down 14-2 to start the game) signals TO after another 3pt shot by Team A. C grants the TO...and doesn't hear or see a full or :30 signal from Team B coach. After asking 3 times and getting no response, charges a full and instructs official scorer/timer to start clock. After :30 (during which Team B was standing on the floor in a huddle), Team B coach is done and his team is ready to play....Team A is seated on their bench. Team B coach is wondering why Team is not A, finds out he was charged w/ a full TO and starts yelling/complaining to C that he wanted a :30. C tries to explain, B coach continues to protest; finally C just walks away. As all players return to floor and we're ready to re-start the game, Coach B is 2-3 steps (not feet) out on the floor. Instead of administering throw-in, Trail runs over to coach and gets into a visibly heated discussion. Trail then "wacks" Coach B.....and there is 17:33 left in first half.

As the R, we talked about the Tech at halftime......(see my previous post: "what could WE have done differently as a crew to prevent the T?"). Here are my thoughts on what could/should have been done differently:
1) Just inbound the ball; get the game started. Either the coach moves off the flr. (everyone is fine then) OR he doesn't (when the ball reaches mid-court and he's still there - easy "whack" that everyone can see).
2) Wait an extra 5-10 seconds to see if his guys are standing (which means a :30 TO) or sitting on the bench (which means full TO) after asking for the TO; what's the harm in waiting a few extra seconds? That extra time would have avoided pissing off an already frustrated coach.

Instead of doing either option above, Trail jogged 25-30 feet over to the coach, started the confrontation, and then wacked him. Who knows, maybe the coach would have gotten a T anyway, but every single problem doesn't have to be dealt with by using a T. Not ALL contact is a foul and not ALL problems need to be addressed with a T.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

Tomegun -- Keep in mind that using "we" is a lot less accusatory or confrontational than "you".

Here's a situation to illustrate my point......Team B coach (down 14-2 to start the game) signals TO after another 3pt shot by Team A. C grants the TO...and doesn't hear or see a full or :30 signal from Team B coach. After asking 3 times and getting no response, charges a full and instructs official scorer/timer to start clock. After :30 (during which Team B was standing on the floor in a huddle), Team B coach is done and his team is ready to play....Team A is seated on their bench. Team B coach is wondering why Team is not A, finds out he was charged w/ a full TO and starts yelling/complaining to C that he wanted a :30. C tries to explain, B coach continues to protest; finally C just walks away. As all players return to floor and we're ready to re-start the game, Coach B is 2-3 steps (not feet) out on the floor. Instead of administering throw-in, Trail runs over to coach and gets into a visibly heated discussion. Trail then "wacks" Coach B.....and there is 17:33 left in first half.

As the R, we talked about the Tech at halftime......(see my previous post: "what could WE have done differently as a crew to prevent the T?"). Here are my thoughts on what could/should have been done differently:
1) Just inbound the ball; get the game started. Either the coach moves off the flr. (everyone is fine then) OR he doesn't (when the ball reaches mid-court and he's still there - easy "whack" that everyone can see).
2) Wait an extra 5-10 seconds to see if his guys are standing (which means a :30 TO) or sitting on the bench (which means full TO) after asking for the TO; what's the harm in waiting a few extra seconds? That extra time would have avoided pissing off an already frustrated coach.

Instead of doing either option above, Trail jogged 25-30 feet over to the coach, started the confrontation, and then wacked him. Who knows, maybe the coach would have gotten a T anyway, but every single problem doesn't have to be dealt with by using a T. Not ALL contact is a foul and not ALL problems need to be addressed with a T.

I understand what you are saying, but I would probably just use, "What could have been done" instead. I think some things are wrong with your scenario (which is a good scenario):

1. I wouldn't ask three times.
2. Team A is seated, the coach didn't specify a 30, too bad so sad.
3. I would not put the ball in play and hope the coach moved off the floor. P U H L E A S E!

I agree with you about the confrontation. I would simply tell the coach why it was a full time out. The coach will learn sooner or later. I wouldn't jog over there and get into it with the coach. If the coach is making a spectacle of himself, the distance between the coach and officials will allow everyone in the gym to see it and the T will not surprise anyone.

[SmokeEater]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I understand what you are saying, but I would probably just use, "What could have been done" instead. I think some things are wrong with your scenario (which is a good scenario):

1. I wouldn't ask three times.
2. Team A is seated, the coach didn't specify a 30, too bad so sad.
3. I would not put the ball in play and hope the coach moved off the floor. P U H L E A S E!

I agree with you about the confrontation. I would simply tell the coach why it was a full time out. The coach will learn sooner or later. I wouldn't jog over there and get into it with the coach. If the coach is making a spectacle of himself, the distance between the coach and officials will allow everyone in the gym to see it and the T will not surprise anyone.

1. I agree, ask once then its a full TO
2. I agree, nuff said
3. I really agree .....

What more can be said, I agree whole hearted.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by tomegun

1. I wouldn't ask three times.
2. Team A is seated, the coach didn't specify a 30, too bad so sad.
3. I would not put the ball in play and hope the coach moved off the floor. P U H L E A S E!

Agree completely. Let a coach completely ignore you if you ask what kinda TO is wanted and not do anything about it? The coach is out on the floor yelling/complaining at you and you don't think that something should be done about it?

P U H L E A S E is freaking right!!

[jeffpea]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I understand what you are saying, but I would probably just use, "What could have been done" instead. I think some things are wrong with your scenario (which is a good scenario):

1. I wouldn't ask three times.
2. Team A is seated, the coach didn't specify a 30, too bad so sad.
3. I would not put the ball in play and hope the coach moved off the floor. P U H L E A S E!

I agree with you about the confrontation. I would simply tell the coach why it was a full time out. The coach will learn sooner or later. I wouldn't jog over there and get into it with the coach. If the coach is making a spectacle of himself, the distance between the coach and officials will allow everyone in the gym to see it and the T will not surprise anyone.

I think we basically agree that there IS a good way to ask your partner about a T and what could have been done differently....With very few exceptions, you could always have done something different that probably would have avoided the T.

As for the situation I described, I don't think there is a big harm in waiting to find out what kind of TO a coach wants (it ultimately is not the most important infraction to penalize). I would prefer not to cause more problems, if I can help it, than the game will normally create.

As for the coach on the flr., he was really only giving my partner the "evil eye" or "death stare" prior to inbounding the ball. I felt like the situation was winding down and we would have had no problem if we just inbounded the ball. Instead, by going over to the coach, the "fire" was just re-ignited and thus the T was given (btw - the calling official said he gave the T because he asked the coach several times to move off the flr without any movement).

IMHO, too many T's are given to players/coaches because officials get too frustrated or too emotional too quickly. YES, T's should be given when they are deserved. A T is just like a common foul or violation - however most officials are still pretty "wound up" after the fact. We should be the calmest people in the arena during the game - afterwards is when we can get crazy w/ post-game refreshments...

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

I think we basically agree that there IS a good way to ask your partner about a T and what could have been done differently....With very few exceptions, you could always have done something different that probably would have avoided the T.

No we don't agree on this. During all my time on the court (as an official ), I have never done anything to earn a T so I don't know what I could do differently to avoid a T. Someone does something to earn a T and either you give a T or you don't.

Originally Posted by jeffpea

As for the situation I described, I don't think there is a big harm in waiting to find out what kind of TO a coach wants (it ultimately is not the most important infraction to penalize). I would prefer not to cause more problems, if I can help it, than the game will normally create.

Maybe a good suggestion for you would be to mention this when you talk to the coaches before the game. Barring something unusual like players mixing it up on the way to the huddle, my actions are pretty routine for timeouts.

1. Stop play and grant the timeout.
2a. If known communicate what type of timeout it is so my partners are not standing there waiting for me.
2b. Ask the coach what type of timeout they want (once) and then communicate it to my partners.
3. Allow the players to make it to their bench and then report the timeout to the table.

It may sound sort of gruff here, but during the game my question for the coach will either be, "Coach" or "Coach, what do you want?"

I (really) just thought of something that might help this whole situation where I don't get to the end of the timeout and have a mix up. All of this occurs close to the middle of the court, with a loud and clear voice. If the coach didn't answer and he/she hears me report a full timeout, they will surely say something at that point. I think we, as officials, don't use our voices as much as we should. Is it normal for us to go through a day without talking or communicating with a whistle? No. So it would make sense to use our (outside) voice and communicate timeouts, subs, fouls at the table, etc.