Ready and waiting with the T

[SmokeEater]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I understand what you are saying, but I would probably just use, "What could have been done" instead. I think some things are wrong with your scenario (which is a good scenario):

1. I wouldn't ask three times.
2. Team A is seated, the coach didn't specify a 30, too bad so sad.
3. I would not put the ball in play and hope the coach moved off the floor. P U H L E A S E!

I agree with you about the confrontation. I would simply tell the coach why it was a full time out. The coach will learn sooner or later. I wouldn't jog over there and get into it with the coach. If the coach is making a spectacle of himself, the distance between the coach and officials will allow everyone in the gym to see it and the T will not surprise anyone.

1. I agree, ask once then its a full TO
2. I agree, nuff said
3. I really agree .....

What more can be said, I agree whole hearted.

[Junker]

Originally Posted by MadCityRef

Junker--
Please give more details of your T for the player slapping the floor.

Sure, A1 gets the ball stolen from B1. During the play, A1 ends up off balance and then on the floor with no contact. A1 slaps the floor with 2 hands and recieves a T. His coach tries to tell me he was frustrated with himself. I tell the coach that it doesn't matter, an outburst like that is unsporting. The game moves on without further incident.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by tomegun

1. I wouldn't ask three times.
2. Team A is seated, the coach didn't specify a 30, too bad so sad.
3. I would not put the ball in play and hope the coach moved off the floor. P U H L E A S E!

Agree completely. Let a coach completely ignore you if you ask what kinda TO is wanted and not do anything about it? The coach is out on the floor yelling/complaining at you and you don't think that something should be done about it?

P U H L E A S E is freaking right!!

[jeffpea]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I understand what you are saying, but I would probably just use, "What could have been done" instead. I think some things are wrong with your scenario (which is a good scenario):

1. I wouldn't ask three times.
2. Team A is seated, the coach didn't specify a 30, too bad so sad.
3. I would not put the ball in play and hope the coach moved off the floor. P U H L E A S E!

I agree with you about the confrontation. I would simply tell the coach why it was a full time out. The coach will learn sooner or later. I wouldn't jog over there and get into it with the coach. If the coach is making a spectacle of himself, the distance between the coach and officials will allow everyone in the gym to see it and the T will not surprise anyone.

I think we basically agree that there IS a good way to ask your partner about a T and what could have been done differently....With very few exceptions, you could always have done something different that probably would have avoided the T.

As for the situation I described, I don't think there is a big harm in waiting to find out what kind of TO a coach wants (it ultimately is not the most important infraction to penalize). I would prefer not to cause more problems, if I can help it, than the game will normally create.

As for the coach on the flr., he was really only giving my partner the "evil eye" or "death stare" prior to inbounding the ball. I felt like the situation was winding down and we would have had no problem if we just inbounded the ball. Instead, by going over to the coach, the "fire" was just re-ignited and thus the T was given (btw - the calling official said he gave the T because he asked the coach several times to move off the flr without any movement).

IMHO, too many T's are given to players/coaches because officials get too frustrated or too emotional too quickly. YES, T's should be given when they are deserved. A T is just like a common foul or violation - however most officials are still pretty "wound up" after the fact. We should be the calmest people in the arena during the game - afterwards is when we can get crazy w/ post-game refreshments...

[biz]

Originally Posted by Junker

Sure, A1 gets the ball stolen from B1. During the play, A1 ends up off balance and then on the floor with no contact. A1 slaps the floor with 2 hands and recieves a T. His coach tries to tell me he was frustrated with himself. I tell the coach that it doesn't matter, an outburst like that is unsporting. The game moves on without further incident.

That's a tough "T" IMO. I understand your point, but is it a one time incident or a habitual show of immaturity? I wouldn't go to the "T" personally unless the floor slap was accompanied by complaints of why there wasn't a foul or it happened more than once after a warning from me or my partner(s).

BTW would you have called a "T" on Steve Wojciechowski (I looked up the spelling ) every time he slapped the floor before a big defensive possesion?

[Adam]

It's just like throwing the ball, or slapping the backboard out of frustration. I know Junker doesn't just throw out Ts like candy at a parade (unless it's an AAU game), so I trust the slap was sufficiently strong and loud to earn the T.

[Junker]

Originally Posted by biz

That's a tough "T" IMO. I understand your point, but is it a one time incident or a habitual show of immaturity? I wouldn't go to the "T" personally unless the floor slap was accompanied by complaints of why there wasn't a foul or it happened more than once after a warning from me or my partner(s).

BTW would you have called a "T" on Steve Wojciechowski (I looked up the spelling ) every time he slapped the floor before a big defensive possesion?

In a varsity game I would have talked to the the kid and told him not to do it again. This was a freshman game if I remember correctly so I just went ahead and whacked him. I work a lot of varsity in the league so I try to get the sportsmanship point across to them when they're young so I don't have to take care of as much business at the varsity level.

[armymanjones]

Originally Posted by Junker

In a varsity game I would have talked to the the kid and told him not to do it again. This was a freshman game if I remember correctly so I just went ahead and whacked him. I work a lot of varsity in the league so I try to get the sportsmanship point across to them when they're young so I don't have to take care of as much business at the varsity level.

Seems to me if you were going to call a T you would do it in the V game seeing that the kid should know better by now. Just my humble opinion. Your call

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

I think we basically agree that there IS a good way to ask your partner about a T and what could have been done differently....With very few exceptions, you could always have done something different that probably would have avoided the T.

No we don't agree on this. During all my time on the court (as an official ), I have never done anything to earn a T so I don't know what I could do differently to avoid a T. Someone does something to earn a T and either you give a T or you don't.

Originally Posted by jeffpea

As for the situation I described, I don't think there is a big harm in waiting to find out what kind of TO a coach wants (it ultimately is not the most important infraction to penalize). I would prefer not to cause more problems, if I can help it, than the game will normally create.

Maybe a good suggestion for you would be to mention this when you talk to the coaches before the game. Barring something unusual like players mixing it up on the way to the huddle, my actions are pretty routine for timeouts.

1. Stop play and grant the timeout.
2a. If known communicate what type of timeout it is so my partners are not standing there waiting for me.
2b. Ask the coach what type of timeout they want (once) and then communicate it to my partners.
3. Allow the players to make it to their bench and then report the timeout to the table.

It may sound sort of gruff here, but during the game my question for the coach will either be, "Coach" or "Coach, what do you want?"

I (really) just thought of something that might help this whole situation where I don't get to the end of the timeout and have a mix up. All of this occurs close to the middle of the court, with a loud and clear voice. If the coach didn't answer and he/she hears me report a full timeout, they will surely say something at that point. I think we, as officials, don't use our voices as much as we should. Is it normal for us to go through a day without talking or communicating with a whistle? No. So it would make sense to use our (outside) voice and communicate timeouts, subs, fouls at the table, etc.

[Junker]

Originally Posted by Junker

In a varsity game I would have talked to the the kid and told him not to do it again. This was a freshman game if I remember correctly so I just went ahead and whacked him. I work a lot of varsity in the league so I try to get the sportsmanship point across to them when they're young so I don't have to take care of as much business at the varsity level.

I agree that they should know better by varsity which is why I won't warn them in a JV game. Nip it in the bud as Barney Fife and the guys that taught me to officiate say.

[Junker]

Originally Posted by armymanjones

Seems to me if you were going to call a T you would do it in the V game seeing that the kid should know better by now. Just my humble opinion. Your call

Oops, I meant to quote this post, not my own. Geez, I'm such an egomaniac, next thing you know I'll be talking about myself in the 3rd person.