Ready and waiting with the T

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Chess Ref

I agree that not enough T's are called. So far this week I have seen a thrown clipboard and a coach , standing at the division line , 5 feet into the court, yelling at a ref. The refs had nothing. They apparently were exercising their game management skills.....

Sadly, that's become the most-used excuse for someone who's trying to rationalize away their failure to control unsporting behavior. All it means is that the NFHS and NCAA will just issue the exact same POE and bulletin- again- pleading with officials to start calling this crap.

[refnjoe]

As a rookie, Im glad to hear the different perspectives on this. I've called a few techs this season, and have wondered about it.

One of my mentors told me early on that one of the hardest things for a rookie to learn is when to call the T. I haven't really had this problem much, with one exception, and began to wonder if I needed to learn when NOT to call it.

Your comments and feedback helped me to think Im on the right track...

[armymanjones]

I believe a T should be called when warranted by the rules and to manage a game when unsportsmanlike activity is occuring. As far as a fan is concerned, that is for school management. The official is to point it out if he feels it needs to be addressed. I have a problem if the official gets personal about it and allows fans to get under their skin where they get into a verbal confrontation. The official I originally started this thread about constantly gets into these confrontations and warns the fan that if he hears one more word he will put them out. In one occasion he actually stood there and waited to see if the person said antoher word. He was the R on this game but I did pull him aside at the half and let him know we need to focus more on the game. I didn't hear the whole conversation but as I recall he was reperting a foul and the fan was continuosly saying "call it both ways" and " we know you are a homer". Do I consider this grounds for removal of the fan? In this case no, but if he was being beligerant maybe.

[Junker]

I can understand your problem with an official that gets into confrontations with fans. That shouldn't happen. They should be letting game management take care of fan problems. Now, if it's a weekend deal, or lower level where there really isn't game management I have no problem with the official tossing someone for calling them a homer, especially if it was directly in the official's face.

[armymanjones]

Originally Posted by Junker

I can understand your problem with an official that gets into confrontations with fans. That shouldn't happen. They should be letting game management take care of fan problems. Now, if it's a weekend deal, or lower level where there really isn't game management I have no problem with the official tossing someone for calling them a homer, especially if it was directly in the official's face.

These are all HS games

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Chess Ref

I agree that not enough T's are called. So far this week I have seen a thrown clipboard and a coach , standing at the division line , 5 feet into the court, yelling at a ref. The refs had nothing. They apparently were exercising their game management skills.....

My most regrettable play of the year: Not calling a T on a coach who slammed his clipboard in anger over a bad play by his player. (2-man)I'm lead, opposite table, on Coach A's end of the court. A1 makes some kind of horrible play. I hear, but don't see, an object slamming on the floor. The sound clearly came from Team A's bench. I immediately look over and see the coach picking up his clipboard.

My partner was trail, table-side. When he didn't blow his whistle I should have stepped and did the job.

[armymanjones]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

My most regrettable play of the year: Not calling a T on a coach who slammed his clipboard in anger over a bad play by his player. (2-man)I'm lead, opposite table, on Coach A's end of the court. A1 makes some kind of horrible play. I hear, but don't see, an object slamming on the floor. The sound clearly came from Team A's bench. I immediately look over and see the coach picking up his clipboard.

My partner was trail, table-side. When he didn't blow his whistle I should have stepped and did the job.

Had a similar play and I did T the coach and he couldn't understand why I T'd him up because he was not complaining about a call just upset with his players. I explained it was unsportsmanlike even if he was not directing it at the officials. Same as if he was using foul language in the huddle that I and everyone else could hear.

[Junker]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

My most regrettable play of the year: Not calling a T on a coach who slammed his clipboard in anger over a bad play by his player. (2-man)I'm lead, opposite table, on Coach A's end of the court. A1 makes some kind of horrible play. I hear, but don't see, an object slamming on the floor. The sound clearly came from Team A's bench. I immediately look over and see the coach picking up his clipboard.

My partner was trail, table-side. When he didn't blow his whistle I should have stepped and did the job.

I can see why you'd feel like you left one out there, but if you didn't actually see it, I don't know that you necessarily want to call it. I am 99.99999% sure a coach kicked a bench on me earlier this season, but I didn't see it, so I didn't call it. Calling a T for something you don't actually see could get you in some trouble.

[Junker]

Originally Posted by armymanjones

Had a similar play and I did T the coach and he couldn't understand why I T'd him up because he was not complaining about a call just upset with his players. I explained it was unsportsmanlike even if he was not directing it at the officials. Same as if he was using foul language in the huddle that I and everyone else could hear.

Good call. I took some heat in a JV game this season from a coach because I whacked a player for slapping the floor with two hands after a steal. I think these acts are unsportsmanlike and need to be taken care of. The coach, suprisingly, disagreed.

[jeffpea]

Originally Posted by mplagrow

I tend to disagree. What do you say. "Hey Charlie, I notice you call a lot of T's on people. Why are you so uptight?" I'm sure there are more appropriate ways you could couch the question, but unless you are in a mentor/mentee situation, I wouldn't try it.

Here's how I would ask him about it: "Charlie, what happened on that T?"...(listen to his explaination to understand what the real problem was - rather than what he may have perceived)..."Do you think there is anything we could have done as a crew to avoid the T?"...(listen some more)....then suggest a possible solution in the form of a question....i.e. "What do you think would have happened if we just administered the ball quickly? Do you think the coach would have moved a few steps back into the coaching box and started coaching his team?....

In this situation, you can't TELL someone they should have done something different, you have to SELL them....iow, they have to convince themselves (with a little help from you) that there is another solution.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Junker

Good call. I took some heat in a JV game this season from a coach because I whacked a player for slapping the floor with two hands after a steal. I think these acts are unsportsmanlike and need to be taken care of. The coach, suprisingly, disagreed.

It's just like throwing the ball against the wall after getting beat for a layup.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

Here's how I would ask him about it: "Charlie, what happened on that T?"...(listen to his explaination to understand what the real problem was - rather than what he may have perceived)..."Do you think there is anything we could have done as a crew to avoid the T?"...(listen some more)....then suggest a possible solution in the form of a question....i.e. "What do you think would have happened if we just administered the ball quickly? Do you think the coach would have moved a few steps back into the coaching box and started coaching his team?....

In this situation, you can't TELL someone they should have done something different, you have to SELL them....iow, they have to convince themselves (with a little help from you) that there is another solution.

Can you explain how you go from a singular situation that one official determined was enough to earn a technical to living in France...no, really. Give me an example of a situation where the crew could do something to prevent a coach or player from earning a T. Right now, your scenario sounds nice, is well said, but smells a little like BS because players and coaches earn technical fouls on their own. Mistakes are made all the time, but that doesn't mean there should be a reaction worthy of a technical foul. So I don't see how a crew could do something to avoid a T just like a crew can't do something to keep little Johnny from turning the ball over.

[MadCityRef]

Junker--
Please give more details of your T for the player slapping the floor.

[jeffpea]

Tomegun -- Keep in mind that using "we" is a lot less accusatory or confrontational than "you".

Here's a situation to illustrate my point......Team B coach (down 14-2 to start the game) signals TO after another 3pt shot by Team A. C grants the TO...and doesn't hear or see a full or :30 signal from Team B coach. After asking 3 times and getting no response, charges a full and instructs official scorer/timer to start clock. After :30 (during which Team B was standing on the floor in a huddle), Team B coach is done and his team is ready to play....Team A is seated on their bench. Team B coach is wondering why Team is not A, finds out he was charged w/ a full TO and starts yelling/complaining to C that he wanted a :30. C tries to explain, B coach continues to protest; finally C just walks away. As all players return to floor and we're ready to re-start the game, Coach B is 2-3 steps (not feet) out on the floor. Instead of administering throw-in, Trail runs over to coach and gets into a visibly heated discussion. Trail then "wacks" Coach B.....and there is 17:33 left in first half.

As the R, we talked about the Tech at halftime......(see my previous post: "what could WE have done differently as a crew to prevent the T?"). Here are my thoughts on what could/should have been done differently:
1) Just inbound the ball; get the game started. Either the coach moves off the flr. (everyone is fine then) OR he doesn't (when the ball reaches mid-court and he's still there - easy "whack" that everyone can see).
2) Wait an extra 5-10 seconds to see if his guys are standing (which means a :30 TO) or sitting on the bench (which means full TO) after asking for the TO; what's the harm in waiting a few extra seconds? That extra time would have avoided pissing off an already frustrated coach.

Instead of doing either option above, Trail jogged 25-30 feet over to the coach, started the confrontation, and then wacked him. Who knows, maybe the coach would have gotten a T anyway, but every single problem doesn't have to be dealt with by using a T. Not ALL contact is a foul and not ALL problems need to be addressed with a T.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

Tomegun -- Keep in mind that using "we" is a lot less accusatory or confrontational than "you".

Here's a situation to illustrate my point......Team B coach (down 14-2 to start the game) signals TO after another 3pt shot by Team A. C grants the TO...and doesn't hear or see a full or :30 signal from Team B coach. After asking 3 times and getting no response, charges a full and instructs official scorer/timer to start clock. After :30 (during which Team B was standing on the floor in a huddle), Team B coach is done and his team is ready to play....Team A is seated on their bench. Team B coach is wondering why Team is not A, finds out he was charged w/ a full TO and starts yelling/complaining to C that he wanted a :30. C tries to explain, B coach continues to protest; finally C just walks away. As all players return to floor and we're ready to re-start the game, Coach B is 2-3 steps (not feet) out on the floor. Instead of administering throw-in, Trail runs over to coach and gets into a visibly heated discussion. Trail then "wacks" Coach B.....and there is 17:33 left in first half.

As the R, we talked about the Tech at halftime......(see my previous post: "what could WE have done differently as a crew to prevent the T?"). Here are my thoughts on what could/should have been done differently:
1) Just inbound the ball; get the game started. Either the coach moves off the flr. (everyone is fine then) OR he doesn't (when the ball reaches mid-court and he's still there - easy "whack" that everyone can see).
2) Wait an extra 5-10 seconds to see if his guys are standing (which means a :30 TO) or sitting on the bench (which means full TO) after asking for the TO; what's the harm in waiting a few extra seconds? That extra time would have avoided pissing off an already frustrated coach.

Instead of doing either option above, Trail jogged 25-30 feet over to the coach, started the confrontation, and then wacked him. Who knows, maybe the coach would have gotten a T anyway, but every single problem doesn't have to be dealt with by using a T. Not ALL contact is a foul and not ALL problems need to be addressed with a T.

I understand what you are saying, but I would probably just use, "What could have been done" instead. I think some things are wrong with your scenario (which is a good scenario):

1. I wouldn't ask three times.
2. Team A is seated, the coach didn't specify a 30, too bad so sad.
3. I would not put the ball in play and hope the coach moved off the floor. P U H L E A S E!

I agree with you about the confrontation. I would simply tell the coach why it was a full time out. The coach will learn sooner or later. I wouldn't jog over there and get into it with the coach. If the coach is making a spectacle of himself, the distance between the coach and officials will allow everyone in the gym to see it and the T will not surprise anyone.