First to touch on shot?

[jmaellis]

What about a situation such as this:

A1, on a fast break, throws an across court, down court pass to A2 who is about mid-court. A2 has to run toward the side line to make the catch otherwise the ball will go OOB. A2 jumps to make the catch. Instead of catching the ball, the ball deflects off of her hands. The ball lands inbounds and starts rolling toward A's basket. A2 returns to the floor with both feet inbounds and then her momentum carries her OOB. Instead of doing an immediate 180 and returning to the court, A2 runs down the sideline for approximately 10 feet, enters the court with both feet and recovers the ball. A2 is the only player from either team anywhere near the ball.

1. Am I correct that since A2 did not immediately return to the court after running OOB it is a violation when she returns onto the court, whether or not she touches the ball?

2. Is there any relevance to the fact that when A2 was running OOB she was the only player around and gained no advantage by being OOB? The fact that she was running along the sideline OOB is sufficient?

3. If #1 is correct, is the POI the location where A2 ran OOB or the location where she returned to the court?

Thanks in advance for the help!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by jmaellis

A2 returns to the floor with both feet inbounds and then her momentum carries her OOB.

Her momentum going out of bounds may be parallel to or at right angles or at any angle to the OOB line that she went out on. When the motion caused by her momentum stops, she's supposed to return back in-bounds from that spot by the shortest route available. If she doesn't, as in continuing on up the OOB line, then it's a technical foul under NFHS rule 10-3-4 for delaying her return after being legally out of bounds. Judgment call. It's never a violation if a player's momentum carries them OOB after a shot, saving a ball, etc. They're legally OOB in those cases.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by jmaellis

What about a situation such as this:

A1, on a fast break, throws an across court, down court pass to A2 who is about mid-court. A2 has to run toward the side line to make the catch otherwise the ball will go OOB. A2 jumps to make the catch. Instead of catching the ball, the ball deflects off of her hands. The ball lands inbounds and starts rolling toward A's basket. A2 returns to the floor with both feet inbounds and then her momentum carries her OOB. Instead of doing an immediate 180 and returning to the court, A2 runs down the sideline for approximately 10 feet, enters the court with both feet and recovers the ball. A2 is the only player from either team anywhere near the ball.

1. Am I correct that since A2 did not immediately return to the court after running OOB it is a violation when she returns onto the court, whether or not she touches the ball?

2. Is there any relevance to the fact that when A2 was running OOB she was the only player around and gained no advantage by being OOB? The fact that she was running along the sideline OOB is sufficient?

3. If #1 is correct, is the POI the location where A2 ran OOB or the location where she returned to the court?

Thanks in advance for the help!

Ditto what Jurassic said, and -
1. No, it's technically a foul - a techincal foul.
2. If, in the judgement of the covering official, she delayed in returning, then no, it doesn't matter.
3. Technical foul penalty (2 shots for B and ball at the division line for throw-in), not POI, is enforced here, as Jurassic said.

Also reference Sit. 10.3.3.A.

[jmaellis]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Her momentum going out of bounds may be parallel to or at right angles or at any angle to the OOB line that she went out on. When the motion caused by her momentum stops, she's supposed to return back in-bounds from that spot by the shortest route available. If she doesn't, as in continuing on up the OOB line, then it's a technical foul under NFHS rule 10-3-4 for delaying her return after being legally out of bounds. Judgment call. It's never a violation if a player's momentum carries them OOB after a shot, saving a ball, etc. They're legally OOB in those cases.

Got it (thanks to Hawkeyecubp also). I think JR might be testing me; making sure that I F/U by actually looking up the rule. JR, you'll be happy to know that I figured out the rule reference is 10-3-3 not 10-3-4.

So, it's a T if the player does not return to the court via the shortest route available after being legally out of bounds (10-3-3). But it is only a violation for a player to purposely leave the court (I think the common example is a player who gets around a screen by leaving the court and circling around the opponent) (9-3-2).

From a newbie perspective the penalty for the above situations seems like it's flip-flopped. Anybody willing to take the time and enlighten me?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by jmaellis

Got it (thanks to Hawkeyecubp also). I think JR might be testing me; making sure that I F/U by actually looking up the rule. JR, you'll be happy to know that I figured out the rule reference is 10-3-3 not 10-3-4.

I'm not that smart. I typed in the wrong reference.

Originally Posted by jmaellis

Got it (thanks to Hawkeyecubp also). I think JR might be testing me; making sure that I F/U by actually looking up the rule. JR, you'll be happy to know that I figured out the rule reference is 10-3-3 not 10-3-4.

So, it's a T if the player does not return to the court via the shortest route available after being legally out of bounds (10-3-3). But it is only a violation for a player to purposely leave the court (I think the common example is a player who gets around a screen by leaving the court and circling around the opponent) (9-3-2).

From a newbie perspective the penalty for the above situations seems like it's flip-flopped. Anybody willing to take the time and enlighten me?

If I'm not mistaken, it used to be a T to leave the court but the Fed changed it a couple years ago to a violation to encourage officials to call this more.

[BktBallRef]

In your play, if she takes a direct path to the ball, I've got nothing. I don't expect her to immediately step inbounds and then run parallel down the sideline to reach a loose ball. I don't think the rule is meant to penalize such a play.

I would compare it to a baseball player running the basepath. The basepath is the shortest distance between where is standing and the base, not a direct line between two bases. JMHO

[Mregor]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

she's supposed to return back in-bounds from that spot by the shortest route available.

I have never heard that. How are you going to T a player for hustling and then not taking a direct path to the court? We're talking 10 feet here. What's that? 2 running steps? That's over officiating if you ask me.

Mregor

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Mregor

How are you going to T a player for hustling and then not taking a direct path to the court?

I blow my whistle, raise my arm in a fist, and then give a "T" signal. That's how.

[ncaabbref]

Geez if I had a dime for everytime a parent, fan, or coach screams for OOB on this exact play, I might have some pretty good chump change!

LEGAL PLAY as stated earlier