Shirt tucked in

[FishinRef]

GoodwillRef I don't think you can issue a delay of game warning in the case. This is not one of the four delay of games warnings. 4-47-1.2.3.4 Rule Book

A player not conforming to the uniform policy shall be directed to leave the game. 4-15 Rule Book

"Ditto"

Players do not COME IN or STAY IN with the shirt tail out.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by FishinRef

"Ditto"

Players do not COME IN or STAY IN with the shirt tail out.

I know that I'm gonna kick myself for starting this but.....

This came up on the NFHS forum.....

Does the shirt-tucked-in rule(NFHS 3-4-15) apply at all times and any time during the game? Pre-game warm-ups? Bench personnel? Intermissions?

If so, what is the penalty for non-compliance?

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I know that I'm gonna kick myself for starting this but.....

This came up on the NFHS forum.....

Does the shirt-tucked-in rule(NFHS 3-4-15) apply at all times and any time during the game? Pre-game warm-ups? Bench personnel? Intermissions?

If so, what is the penalty for non-compliance?

Common sense officiating should answer this one. Don't go looking for trouble it will find you.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Common sense officiating should answer this one. Don't go looking for trouble it will find you.

Forget common sense.....

What do the rules say?

Do players in the pre-game warm-up have to tuck their shirts in?

[deecee]

I am sorry but its time for the obituary again.

Three yards of black fabric enshroud my computer terminal. I am mourning the passing of an old friend by the name of Common Sense.

His obituary reads as follows:

Common Sense, aka C.S., lived a long life, but died from heart failure at the brink of the millennium. No one really knows how old he was, his birth records were long ago entangled in miles and miles of bureaucratic red tape.
Known affectionately to close friends as Horse Sense and Sound Thinking, he selflessly devoted himself to a life of service in homes, schools, hospitals and offices, helping folks get jobs done without a lot of fanfare, whooping and hollering. Rules and regulations and petty, frivolous lawsuits held no power over C.S.

A most reliable sage, he was credited with cultivating the ability to know when to come in out of the rain, the discovery that the early bird gets the worm and how to take the bitter with the sweet. C.S. also developed sound financial policies (don't spend more than you earn), reliable parenting strategies (the adult is in charge, not the kid) and prudent dietary plans (offset eggs and bacon with a little fiber and orange juice).

A veteran of the Industrial Revolution, the Great Depression, the Technological Revolution and the Smoking Crusades, C.S. survived sundry cultural and educational trends including disco, the men's movement, body piercing, whole language and new math.

C.S.'s health began declining in the late 1960s when he became infected with the If-It-Feels-Good, Do-It virus. In the following decades his waning strength proved no match for the ravages of overbearing federal and state rules and regulations and an oppressive tax code. C.S. was sapped of strength and the will to live as the Ten Commandments became contraband, criminals received better treatment than victims and judges stuck their noses in everything from Boy Scouts to professional baseball and golf. His deterioration accelerated as schools implemented zero-tolerance policies. Reports of 6-year-old boys charged with sexual harassment for kissing classmates, a teen suspended for taking a swig of Scope mouthwash after lunch, girls suspended for possessing Midol and an honor student expelled for having a table knife in her school lunch were more than his heart could endure.

As the end neared, doctors say C.S. drifted in and out of logic but was kept informed of developments regarding regulations on low-flow toilets and mandatory air bags. Finally, upon hearing about a government plan to ban inhalers from 14 million asthmatics due to a trace of a pollutant that may be harmful to the environment, C.S. breathed his last. Services will be at Whispering Pines Cemetery. C.S. was preceded in death by his wife, Discretion; one daughter, Responsibility; and one son, Reason. He is survived by two step-brothers, Half-Wit and Dim-Wit.

Memorial Contributions may be sent to the Institute for Rational Thought.

Farewell, Common Sense. May you rest in peace.

[Ed Maeder]

I guess I'll chime in on this one seeings I started the discussion on the NFHS site. In pregame warm-ups I look for many things that I feel are prevenitive officiating. The rule book might not specifically address these things but I feel it is good game management. I look for many things like jewelery, sweatbands, headbands, hair clips, etc. One of the things I ask of the team members is to tuck in their jerseys if they do not have warm-ups on over them. What they do on the bench or during intermissions I'm not too concerned with but during pregame warm-ups I don't feel I am overstepping my bounds to nicely ask that team members tuck in their jerseys as they will have to have them that way when they play. Not a big deal but I feel this is a starting of setting the tone for the game.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Ed Maeder

I guess I'll chime in on this one seeings I started the discussion on the NFHS site. In pregame warm-ups I look for many things that I feel are prevenitive officiating. The rule book might not specifically address these things but I feel it is good game management. I look for many things like jewelery, sweatbands, headbands, hair clips, etc. One of the things I ask of the team members is to tuck in their jerseys if they do not have warm-ups on over them. What they do on the bench or during intermissions I'm not too concerned with but during pregame warm-ups I don't feel I am overstepping my bounds to nicely ask that team members tuck in their jerseys as they will have to have them that way when they play. Not a big deal but I feel this is a starting of setting the tone for the game.

Does that mean that rule does apply during warm-ups, Ed, but it doesn't apply during the game to bench personnel?

[Ed Maeder]

I guess what I am saying is the rule doesn't apply to pre-game warm-ups or bench personal. As stated (3-4-15) " A team jersey designed to be worn inside the pants/skirt shall be tucked inside the pants/skirt and the pants/skirt shall be above the hips and worn properly." It doesn't say when or where, but if a team member is representing a school I feel that it is appropriate for them to look and act respectfully. Would you let a team member wear their shorts with the waist down below their butt cheeks during warm-ups, or wear gold chains, rings, watches, ball caps, hair ribbons, multiple colored sweatbands, full length tights, and other such things? The uniform and how it is worn is again a Point Of Emphasis again this year, I feel that the pregame is a great time to emphasize the proper wearing of the uniform. As far as bench personnel, unless they are drawing undo attention to themselves I'm busy officiating a game. If they take the jersey off in the bench area and we see that then that is another story, for another thread.

[ChrisSportsFan]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Forget common sense.....

What do the rules say?

Do players in the pre-game warm-up have to tuck their shirts in?

No they don't and they also don't have to have all the snaps- snapped on their warmup pants.

[Mountaineer]

In my pre-game with coaches/captains after I ask the coaches if the players are properly equipped and going to remain that way - I look at the captains and tell them that means their shirts are tucked in and their shorts are pulled up - this is your only warning. If you bust them in the first quarter you will not have another problem. I am such a jerk when it comes to this issue. When I beckon them in if their shirt isn't tucked in I tell them they aren't ready to enter the game and we'll get them next dead ball. You escort one player off the floor because his/her shirt is untucked the coach will take care of it. Just the way I do it.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

In my pre-game with coaches/captains after I ask the coaches if the players are properly equipped and going to remain that way - I look at the captains and tell them that means their shirts are tucked in and their shorts are pulled up - this is your only warning. If you bust them in the first quarter you will not have another problem. I am such a jerk when it comes to this issue. When I beckon them in if their shirt isn't tucked in I tell them they aren't ready to enter the game and we'll get them next dead ball. You escort one player off the floor because his/her shirt is untucked the coach will take care of it. Just the way I do it.

That's nice. Most officials do so too.

But.....the question is whether you make them tuck their shirts in during the warm-up. Do you?

[FishinRef]

1) That's covered under UNIFORMS- rule 3-4-15 also. To be consistent, I would say that you would have to call it exactly the same as the "shirt-tuck" rule. And, again, if you are consistent, shouldn't both be called the whole game, including pre-game, on the bench, intermissions, etc.?

2) There's a completely different rule and philosophy covering these items. They are covered under EQUIPMENT, APPAREL in rule 3-5, and are banned completely. The items in 3-4-15 aren't banned but are supposed to be worn in a certain way. Iow, you're comparing apples vs. oranges rules-wise.
Yesterday 09:15pm

You bring up a valid point. I have never considered the rule 3-4-15 from that perspective. I'll have to ponder this one for a moment. I thought the shirt-tuck rule was intended for all players participating during a live ball. But the rule does not specify conditions or time periods for enforcement. So now, I could easily assume that the rule is in effect during the ENTIRE Official's jurisdiction. e.g. "including pre-game, on the bench, intermissions, etc.?"

Better yet, somebody get the NFHS on the phone, tell 'em we got a question.............

[Official99]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Forget common sense.....

What do the rules say?

Do players in the pre-game warm-up have to tuck their shirts in?

I would say, if the players have to wear their mouthgaurds during warm-up and they have to be "ready to play" during warm-up, then I enforce that the shirts have to be tucked in during warm-up.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Official99

I would say, if the players have to wear their mouthgaurds during warm-up and they have to be "ready to play" during warm-up, then I enforce that the shirts have to be tucked in during warm-up.

I believe that MASS has a mouthguard rule. I don't know if wearing the mouthguard during warm-ups is mandatory also though. Maybe someone from MASS can chime in here.

[Official99]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I believe that MASS has a mouthguard rule. I don't know if wearing the mouthguard during warm-ups is mandatory also though. Maybe someone from MASS can chime in here.

Sorry, I forget that the mouthguard is state-regulated. In NH, players must wear mouthguards during any school sponsored (or NHIAA regulated) sport, including practices and school summer ball.