Fans on sideline is touched with ball

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

You apparently have the pleasure of only working in gymes with 84-94 ft floors and wide sidelines.

That is not what I am saying, the play in question is covered in the rule book, and it is not a "play on."

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

That is not what I am saying, the play in question is covered in the rule book, and it is not a "play on."

It is when it I'm reffing in a 60 foot gym.

[Jimgolf]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The ball is OOB as per rule 7-1-2(b). It sounds like the the fan interfered with play. If so, give team A the ball back for a throw-in. Use case book play 7.1.2SitB(a) as a guideline. Almost the same situation.

This case is talking about hitting a player in the game (B1). A fan is not a player. The ball is out of bounds, and A1 caused it to be out of bounds. Who gets the ball?

[archangel]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

What? A fan touches the ball and you have a "play on?" Come on...are you really serious?

OK, , I guess I should remember this, the next time, as a fan, I want my team to get the ball back. I'll just reach out, over the OOB line and touch the ball dribbled by the opponent.
Follow the rule exactly?--normally yes, but in this sich I'm ruling common sense...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

This case is talking about hitting a player in the game (B1). A fan is not a player. The ball is out of bounds, and A1 caused it to be out of bounds. Who gets the ball?

How did A1 cause the ball to OOB if he was dribbling it in-bounds? The fan caused the ball to go OOB by interfering with the play. Whether that interference was deliberate or not has no bearing on the play either.

There is no wayinhell you can logically charge A1 with a violation under R9-3-1. Again, the fan caused the ball to go OOB, not A1.

If the fan came 4 feet onto the floor and knocked the ball OOB, would you call a violation on A1 too?

Just give the ball back to team A.

Lah me......

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

If the fan came 4 feet onto the floor and knocked the ball OOB, would you call a violation on A1 too?

Lah me......

Great example.

Of course, some fool is going to tell you not to charge the team associated with this supporter with a technical foul.

[Jimgolf]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

How did A1 cause the ball to OOB if he was dribbling it in-bounds? The fan caused the ball to go OOB by interfering with the play. Whether that interference was deliberate or not has no bearing on the play either.

There is no wayinhell you can logically charge A1 with a violation under R9-3-1. Again, the fan caused the ball to go OOB, not A1.

If the fan came 4 feet onto the floor and knocked the ball OOB, would you call a violation on A1 too?

Just give the ball back to team A.

Lah me......

If you want to make things up, then fine. The rules you cited say otherwise and the case you cited has nothing to do with the play. BTW the fan who is straddling the line is technically OOB, not inbounds. So by hitting the fan, he is dribbling it OOB. I also can't follow why you are saying that the fan hit the ball when the OP says the ball hit the fan.

Unless you've got a better rule citation than the ones you've given, then you have to give the ball to B.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

Unless you've got a better rule citation than the ones you've given, then you have to give the ball to B.

Jim, I'd cut my own nuts off before I'd give the ball to team B in this situation.

The ball would not have gone OOB except for the fan interference. You don't penalize a team for fan interference either. Well..... I thought that you don't. Apparently, I was wrong. There's at least one official that would.

Unbelievable.......

[BillyMac]

KYcat1: great post. Generated a lot of good discussion.

For the good of the cause, I would like to make a slight change in KYcat1's original play. I bring this up because this new play is based on one of those "unannounced" changes made by the NFHS a few years ago, and there are probably a small percentage of Forum members who may not be aware of the change.

A-1 is dribbling up the sideline and he or she, not the ball, touches a player, coach, official or fan, who is out of bounds. The call: No violation.

A few years ago the NFHS rule stated that a dribbler could touch a player who was out of bounds and not violate the out of bounds rule. Within the past few years the NFHS has changed the rule, I believe "unannounced", so that a player may now touch a person, any person, not just a player, without violating. By "unannounced", I mean that the change was made without being included in the annual rule changes, editorial changes, and points of emphasis.

Forum members: When did this change occur?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

KYcat1: great post. Generated a lot of good discussion.

For the good of the cause, I would like to make a slight change in KYcat1's original play. I bring this up because this new play is based on one of those "unannounced" changes made by the NFHS a few years ago, and there are probably a small percentage of Forum members who may not be aware of the change.

A-1 is dribbling up the sideline and he or she, not the ball, touches a player, coach, official or fan, who is out of bounds. The call: No violation.

A few years ago the NFHS rule stated that a dribbler could touch a player who was out of bounds and not violate the out of bounds rule. Within the past few years the NFHS has changed the rule, I believe "unannounced", so that a player may now touch a person, any person, not just a player, without violating. By "unannounced", I mean that the change was made without being included in the annual rule changes, editorial changes, and points of emphasis.

Forum members: When did this change occur?

Case Book play 7.1.1 was changed in the 2004-05 season. The change was unannounced. The key is that the touching must be "inadvertent" and it must occur "without [the player] gaining an advantage."


Here is the current version:
7.1.1 SITUATION A: A1, while holding the ball inbounds near the sideline, touches (a) player B1; (b) a photographer; (c) a coach; (d) an official, all of whom are out of bounds. RULING: A1 is not out of bounds in (a), (b), (c) or (d). To be out of bounds, A1 must touch the floor or some object on or outside a boundary line. People are not considered to be objects and play continues. Inadvertently touching someone who is out of bounds, without gaining an advantage, is not considered a violation.

[Jimgolf]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Jim, I'd cut my own nuts off before I'd give the ball to team B in this situation.

The ball would not have gone OOB except for the fan interference. You don't penalize a team for fan interference either. Well..... I thought that you don't. Apparently, I was wrong. There's at least one official that would.

Unbelievable.......

What if the ball strikes an official straddling the OOB line?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

What if the ball strikes an official straddling the OOB line?

An official being touched by a ball is not fan interference.

Fan interference is fan interference.

Call anything that you want to. I disagree completely with you and always will.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

It is when it I'm reffing in a 60 foot gym.

When do you start enforcing the rule??

63 foot gym
65 foot gym
68 foot gym
70 foot gym
????????????

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

What if the ball strikes an official straddling the OOB line?

Specifically covered in the rules. The rules don't anticiapte that a fan might interfere (except in the unsporting manner covered in 2-8-1 and 2.8.1) -- especially one who is partially on the court. So, use rule 2-3. I'd be inclined to treat it as an "inadvertant whistle" and, in the specific case mentioned, give the ball back to A.

[Jimgolf]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Specifically covered in the rules. The rules don't anticiapte that a fan might interfere (except in the unsporting manner covered in 2-8-1 and 2.8.1) -- especially one who is partially on the court. So, use rule 2-3. I'd be inclined to treat it as an "inadvertant whistle" and, in the specific case mentioned, give the ball back to A.

So is hitting a fan.

Rule 7 Out of Bounds and the Throw-in
SECTION 1 OUT-OF-BOUNDS — PLAYER, BALL
ART. 1 . . . A player is out of bounds when he/she touches the floor, or any
object other than a player, on or outside a boundary. For location of a player in the air, see 4-35.
ART. 2 . . . The ball is out of bounds when it touches or is touched by:
a. A player who is out of bounds.
b. Any other person, the floor, or any object on or outside a boundary.
c. The supports or back of the backboard.
d. The ceiling, overhead equipment or supports.
NOTE: When the rectangular backboard is used, the ball is out of bounds if it
passes over the backboard.
SECTION 2 CAUSING THE BALL TO GO OUT OF BOUNDS - INDIVIDUAL PLAYER
ART. 1 . . . The ball is caused to go out of bounds by the last player in bounds to touch it or be touched by it, unless the ball touches a player who is out of bounds prior to touching something out of bounds other than a player.
ART. 2 . . . If the ball is out of bounds because of touching or being touched by a player who is on or outside a boundary line, such player causes it to go out.