Different scenario of the NY Knicks play....

[dahoopref]

I think most of us saw the NY Knicks game winning throw-in tap with 0.1 seconds to win the game.

But what if a defender tipped the ball and it accidently went into the hoop?

Good bucket or no?

I am reseaching this and am still looking for the answer. Please help. Thanks.

[JRutledge]

I would think the basket would still count. Now if the ball was tapped by the defender and the ball hit the ground and then bounced up in the air, the basket could not count. I think if the ball was touched by the defender, I see no reason why the same result would not take place.

Peace

[dahoopref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I would think the basket would still count. Now if the ball was tapped by the defender and the ball hit the ground and then bounced up in the air, the basket could not count. I think if the ball was touched by the defender, I see no reason why the same result would not take place.

Peace

Thanks. I know that a tapped ball by a offensive player is considered a shot but I wasn't sure if the applied the same to a defender? So you're saying a tapped ball defender is considered a "shot?"

[bigwhistle]

I did not see the play, but if the defender tipped a throw in pass and it had not passed through the goal before time expired, I would think that you waved off the potential basket. It is not a try, since it is at the wrong basket. Would this not fall under the same category as being fouled while shooting at the wrong basket?

[ATXCoach]

Isn't the ruling on this - if the defender tips the ball in the wrong basket, it only counts if it goes through the rim before the time expires.

When exactly is the ball through the rim?

The thinking I seem to recall was that basically, it's not a valid shot attempt so game ends when 0:00 on the clock regardless of where the ball is.

Do I remember correcly a discussion on here from some time ago or am I messing this all up?

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I would think the basket would still count. Now if the ball was tapped by the defender and the ball hit the ground and then bounced up in the air, the basket could not count. I think if the ball was touched by the defender, I see no reason why the same result would not take place.

Peace

I didn't see the game, but it sounds like from the post, this was a throw-in with 0.1 sec. left. If that's the case, the defensive tip would not be considered a shot, and the ball would be dead as soon as the horn goes off if it was not in the basket. An offensive player tipping the ball would be considered a shot, in which case the ball is not dead if it is in the air at the time the horn goes off.

Perhaps what your thinking is if a shot is in the air, and the defense tips or partially blocks a shot, then it is still considered a shot and would still count if the horn goes off before the ball enters the basket.

Qualified statement: This is true for Fed. rules. I have no clue what the NBA rule would be.

[dahoopref]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

I didn't see the game, but it sounds like from the post, this was a throw-in with 0.1 sec. left. If that's the case, the defensive tip would not be considered a shot, and the ball would be dead as soon as the horn goes off if it was not in the basket. An offensive player tipping the ball would be considered a shot, in which case the ball is not dead if it is in the air at the time the horn goes off.

Perhaps what your thinking is if a shot is in the air, and the defense tips or partially blocks a shot, then it is still considered a shot and would still count if the horn goes off before the ball enters the basket.

Qualified statement: This is true for Fed. rules. I have no clue what the NBA rule would be.

Thank you. Your explanation makes a lot of sense. It would be a very tough situation to explainto the offensive coach that the bucket would not count if the defensive player tips it....of course, it could happen.

So are you also saying that ball has to pass through the hoop before the horn goes off if a defensive player tips it in?

I'm guessing this would apply to shotclock situations also.

[JRutledge]

I just looked at 5.1.1 Situation A (b) says the basket cannot count or it implies this. If B touches the ball first (according to this play in the casebook) it would be apart of the pass and you could not count the basket. Unfortunately I cannot find a direct play to this kind of situation in the casebook right now. I will do a little more research or maybe someone will give a more direct response. Right now it looks like you cannot count the basket, but the rules do say a score can come from other ways outside of an actual try for goal.

Peace

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by dahoopref

So are you also saying that ball has to pass through the hoop before the horn goes off if a defensive player tips it in?

I'm guessing this would apply to shotclock situations also.

Correct. The only way a ball remains "live" after the horn goes off is on a shot in the air. Any other time the ball becomes dead immediately. A shot is considered an attempt at the player's own basket. A throw-in from OOB is not considered a shot. Like you said, if the ball was completely through the basket by the time the horn goes off, it would still count as a score. (But, realistically, I wouldn't think it would take less than 0.1 for a pass to be tipped and go completely through the basket.)

Unfortunately I do not have my books with me today. I had to make room in my car for all my kids' presents. Hopefully one of our esteemed colleagues will chime in with the appropriate rule citations.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by dahoopref

It would be a very tough situation to explainto the offensive coach that the bucket would not count if the defensive player tips it....of course, it could happen.

Not only could it happen. It did happen, in a D1 NCAA game last year. It was a 1-point game and the trailing team had the ball. The ball was shot and the rebound was contested. It was tapped by a player and was in the air when the horn sounded. It went into the basket, ending the game. The officials counted the basket, giving the team the win. Only after reviewing the tape later did they realize that a defensive player had been the one who tapped it right before the horn. It should not have counted, and the wrong team won the game. Ouch!

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Not only could it happen. It did happen, in a D1 NCAA game last year. It was a 1-point game and the trailing team had the ball. The ball was shot and the rebound was contested. It was tapped by a player and was in the air when the horn sounded. It went into the basket, ending the game. The officials counted the basket, giving the team the win. Only after reviewing the tape later did they realize that a defensive player had been the one who tapped it right before the horn. It should not have counted, and the wrong team won the game. Ouch!

You know what 2 teams were playing? WOuld love to try and find a replay of that one.

[dahoopref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Not only could it happen. It did happen, in a D1 NCAA game last year. It was a 1-point game and the trailing team had the ball. The ball was shot and the rebound was contested. It was tapped by a player and was in the air when the horn sounded. It went into the basket, ending the game. The officials counted the basket, giving the team the win. Only after reviewing the tape later did they realize that a defensive player had been the one who tapped it right before the horn. It should not have counted, and the wrong team won the game. Ouch!

Thank you for that game situation. I will remember this if it ever happens in a game of mine.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Not only could it happen. It did happen, in a D1 NCAA game last year. It was a 1-point game and the trailing team had the ball. The ball was shot and the rebound was contested. It was tapped by a player and was in the air when the horn sounded. It went into the basket, ending the game. The officials counted the basket, giving the team the win. Only after reviewing the tape later did they realize that a defensive player had been the one who tapped it right before the horn. It should not have counted, and the wrong team won the game. Ouch!

There's an old thread somewhere showing that clip and having the accompanying discussion.

Sigh. If only Chuck Elias was still around. He was kind of a pain in the azz, being such a big BoSox fan and having that manic obsession with spelling and grammar mistakes, but the l'il feller did have a few positive attributes(with the emphasis on "few"). Finding old threads was one of them.

Please don't take that as any kind of criticism, Scrapper. Your being such an ardent Yankees fan certainly makes up for any other personal shortcomings that you might have. I picture you as being much taller than Chuck too.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

There's an old thread somewhere showing that clip and having the accompanying discussion.

Sigh. If only Chuck Elias was still around. He was kind of a pain in the azz, being such a big BoSox fan and having that manic obsession with spelling and grammar mistakes, but the l'il feller did have a few positive attributes(with the emphasis on "few"). Finding old threads was one of them.

Please don't take that as any kind of criticism, Scrapper. Your being such an ardent Yankees fan certainly makes up for any other personal shortcomings that you might have. I picture you as being much taller than Chuck too.

I just got an email from God, he said this is the funniest post he's read in a long time.

btw Jeff, if you haven't checked yet he said you still owe Him an answer on which way that Rosy O'donell/Donald Trump argument should go.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

btw Jeff, if you haven't checked yet he said you still owe Him an answer on which way that Rosy O'donell/Donald Trump argument should go.

LOL!!!

Peace