How Much Space?

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Ahhh, the humility.

So according to 4-24-6, this post player's actions were illegal and I should have called a foul on him. 10-6-1 also reinforces this - "A player shall not: hold, push, charge, trip; nor impede the progress of an opponent by extending an arm, shoulder, hip or knee, or by bending the body into other than a normal position; ... Extending the arms fully or partially other than vertically so the freedom of movement of an opponent is hindered when contact with the arms occurs is not legal."

Per the rule, ANY EXTENTION that inhibits the motion of an opponent is illegal. But this is not how we "practically" call the game.

A player can bend at the waist to catch a pass and protect the ball from the defender's reach. Only with special attentiveness can a player hold a basketball in front of themself and not partially extend their elbows away from their body. Would these actions be illegal if the defender contacted the arms / elbows, hips, etc?

If possible give me some more insight - the casebook is nearly silent on this issue.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by DownTownTonyBrown

Ahhh, the humility.

So according to 4-24-6, this post player's actions were illegal and I should have called a foul on him. 10-6-1 also reinforces this - "A player shall not: hold, push, charge, trip; nor impede the progress of an opponent by extending an arm, shoulder, hip or knee, or by bending the body into other than a normal position; ... Extending the arms fully or partially other than vertically so the freedom of movement of an opponent is hindered when contact with the arms occurs is not legal."

Per the rule, ANY EXTENTION that inhibits the motion of an opponent is illegal. But this is not how we "practically" call the game.

A player can bend at the waist to catch a pass and protect the ball from the defender's reach. Only with special attentiveness can a player hold a basketball in front of themself and not partially extend their elbows away from their body. Would these actions be illegal if the defender contacted the arms / elbows, hips, etc?

If possible give me some more insight - the casebook is nearly silent on this issue.

Tony, just think about it logically.

If the center has his elbows out, and he gains an advantage by using the arms/elbows to stop the defender from getting around to front the center, call it on the center. Iow, if the defender ran into or through the outstretched elbows, call it on the center. He stopped the defender from legally getting around him.

If the center just has his elbows out, and the defender is pushing on those arms/elbows to move him off the blocks, the defender is now illegally using his hands, arms, etc. Iow, instead of trying to get around the center, he's trying to push his way through the center instead. If that's the case, call it on the defender. The defender is not having his "motion inhibited" in this case. He's actually inhibiting the center's motion instead by pushing him.

Is that what you were getting at?

[bigdogrunnin]

Same situation last night (twice). JV Boys. Team A, player A1 is "posting up" and has his arms extended so that the defender (B1) cannot get around him. A2 begins a drive to the basket, and A1 still has B1 pinned using his arms. TWEET! Team Control Foul. Coach doesn't understand the first one, so I tell him what I saw. Second one, Coach sees it immediately and tells his player what not to do from that point on. Never saw it again the entire game.

[deecee]

just having the arms outstretched isnt illeagle (poor sick bird) -- good post players use those outstretched arms to feel for the defense -- its only illeagle if he uses those arms to impede the defense -- you can tell if he is holding the defense back or using as a feeler -- defensive players get frustrated because they expect the foul rather than try and move through the arms normally -- which is when we would notice if the offensive player was doing something wrong or not.

its more a fact of poor defensive conditioning than offensive holding.

[Rusty Gilbert]

A player is entitled to his vertical space above him, not to the horizontal space around him. Efforts to make himself/herself bigger or wider by extending legs and/or arms beyond shoulder width result in that player being "at risk" for impeding an opponent. Contact that occurs to the extended arms or extended legs/knees is the responsibility of the player doing the extending.