NBA...at it again! - Page 2

Dan_ref · #16 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 18, 2006, 11:58am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Lost in all the fooferaw was the fact that Denver had 3 subs at the table waiting to go in the game when the flagrant foul on the layup occurred.

I didn't know that.

Anyway, until the NBA includes a provision for a team to throw in the towel during the game all this nonsense about being embarrased is just that - nonsense.

There was a time during the 80's/early 90's when teams like the Lakers spent 3 qtrs going up big then give an exhibition during the 4th qtr that Chick Hearn called "showtime". I don't recall anybody ever taking out Magic Johnson for dunking an alley-oop over him with a 25 point lead in the 4th qtr.

If the Knick players think their manhood is somehow wrapped up in getting an old fashioned azz-whooping then they should take it up with the guy who hired them to play on the team to begin with.

Mark Dexter · #17 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 18, 2006, 12:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Welll, I disagree. I don't think he would have been ejected based on the foul alone.

What about if this were a HS game and you were calling it?

cmathews · #18 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 18, 2006, 12:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old School

Just learned this morning that Isaiah said; show some class, to Camby and Anthony, not don't go to the hole or you're going to pay. Says this got something to do with Larry Brown, interesting....

Go to ESPN.com and watch the video of Thomas talking to Anthony. His body language certainly doesn't suggest "show some class". They have a close up and it appears that he says something to the effect of "Anthony, don't go to the paint, or it's going to get ugly" then at the end he has a little father knows best smirk on his face........looks like he will watch the next one or more on TV...which in all reality will probably be better for him, they should actually just make him coach then watch the tapes 3 more times, a much bigger punishment the way the Knicks are playing...

btaylor64 · #19 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 18, 2006, 01:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

You're a genius!

Personally, I didn't think the foul was that bad. I don't see an ejection based solely on the foul. Having not seen the game, I wonder if anything preceded the foul.

That foul definitely deserved a Flagrant 2. The NBA refs referee plays like that on the basis of W-I-F. It stands for Wind up, Impact, and Follow-through. Not all three have to be present to award a Flagrant 2 and eject a player, but that is how they use it. In this case, the Wind up was def. there, the impact was def. there, maybe not so much of the follow through because he pulled his hands back up, but like I said not all 3 have to be present to eject. It was def. an ejectable offense.

jimgolf,

In response to your 1st question referees are taught to handle it different ways, because different situations calls for different actions. In this situation
Robbie calls the foul and ejects Collins then him and Bavetta sees what is about to take place so they both go get the players and try to restrain them. As you saw Violet was the Trail so she sits back and gets the big picture view which is what she needed to do here. It is ok to have 2 officials on the play, but we don't need 3. We need one to sit back and watch it all. From there, Bavetta has a hold of one of the players and Robbie has one of the others and then Nate Robinson comes in. Robbie loses his player and that player takes Nate to the ground and from there you see Bavetta and Robinson get out of there, which is exactly what you want to do. Now all 3 officials can watch the benches and the players on the court to see who throws the punches and will be ejected. There is nothing else they can do at this point but just watch and start ejecting players. Leave all that garbage to the coaches to clean up.

Larks · #20 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 18, 2006, 01:12pm

Each team fined $500,000 (Has that ever happened before?)

Carmello - 15 game sit
Robinson and Smith - 10 game sits.
Plus some additional suspensions

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2701228

cmathews · #21 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 18, 2006, 01:24pm

Stern says the 500k fines are a message that they are serious about cleaning up the league...yet he lets Thomas continue coaching after a threat. Saying he only used definite knowledge for suspensions. Thomas admits telling Anthony not to go to the paint, but it was meant as a "sportsmanship" lecture

.......I ain't buying that part of it....I like the suspensions for the players though, seem about right to me...

deecee · #22 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 18, 2006, 01:32pm

Why suspend Isiah?

I think ownership for the Knicks NEEDS TO fire him. I cannot remember the last time anyone in life was given so many second chances after so many screw ups. And by so many screw ups I mean the same screw ups many times.

cmathews · #23 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 18, 2006, 01:39pm

Firing is a good idea, the suspension needs to come from the NBA for initiating the problem to begin with....

JRutledge · #24 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 18, 2006, 01:41pm

Here is the thing, none of us were there. You do not know what context things were said or who heard them. I do agree what Thomas said. Why have two of your stars in the game at that point? Now the Nuggets are paying for this a lot more than the Knicks will after this fight. The Knicks are not likely going to make the playoffs. A game or two could keep the Nuggets from having home-court advantage and advancing in the playoffs. I hope it was worth it.

Peace

cmathews · #25 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 18, 2006, 01:53pm

Yeah, they didn't need to be in there, and now they (nuggies) can find out how good they are without the leagues leading scorer...now they will really pursue the Answer LOL...

deecee · #26 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 18, 2006, 01:57pm

here's the thing -- these guys are professionals and I dont expect to hear any whining about "boo hoo -- we are getting our asses kicked and the starters are still in." Suck it up and put a better product out there if you are continually getting your butt handed to you -- period this isnt popwarner basektball.

You put a crap product on the floor and you get flushed well thats the bed you made -- get real comfortable. I think the new james bond should have been officiating this game -- throw diplomacy out the window -- and the knicks (except David lee -- I like the guy and his hustle reminds me of Charles Oakley).

JRutledge · #27 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 18, 2006, 02:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee

here's the thing -- these guys are professionals and I dont expect to hear any whining about "boo hoo -- we are getting our asses kicked and the starters are still in." Suck it up and put a better product out there if you are continually getting your butt handed to you -- period this isnt popwarner basektball.

You put a crap product on the floor and you get flushed well thats the bed you made -- get real comfortable. I think the new james bond should have been officiating this game -- throw diplomacy out the window -- and the knicks (except David lee -- I like the guy and his hustle reminds me of Charles Oakley).

First of all this is not Pop Warner, Little League or JH ball. This is the pros. Like it or not there are codes of respect. I cannot think of a single sport where there are not certain codes that players and coaches live by to some extent at the pro level. Even at the college and HS levels there are certain things you do not do or you will piss off the opponent and sometimes the officials. Ever see a team up by 50 keep on the press? I am not saying actions that are advocated are justified or the right thing to do. But we would all be naive to think that doing certain things to embarrass or to show up an opponent is not apart of the thinking of many that play and participate.

Peace

deecee · #28 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 18, 2006, 02:15pm

JR -- I am not saying that its the right thing to do -- but why should one team change their strategy on how they want to play their whole game because their opponent sucks. I mean these guys get paid millions a year, these coaches have the job security of the president of Iraq, and most of them whether winning or losing have the same lack of sportsmanship that might have been present 30 or 40 years ago.

Take the lakers game yesterday versus the wizards -- one of the qizards players had a fairly open fast break that smush parker caught up to and fouled the guy and while he fouled him he held on to him to keep him from falling -- what did the wizards player say "instead of thanks for keeping me up" he got in smush's face and started trash talking. The foul was clean and smush made a good play on the ball but the fact remains that the Knicks should take their lumps and the next time they play the nuggets they might want to try to score more than the nuggets. simple plan -- however they will fail.

Adam · #29 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 18, 2006, 02:22pm

We're talking about, what, a 20 point lead? It's not like they were winning by 80. Isaiah's comments strike me as premeditation. I would hope that, even lacking definitive information, Stern had a word with Thomas.
Getting embarrassed is one thing, tackling a shooter from behind is not an appropriate response; I don't care who you are. It's not quite like throwing a hit-and-run sucker punch, but still....

JRutledge · #30 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 18, 2006, 02:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

We're talking about, what, a 20 point lead? It's not like they were winning by 80. Isaiah's comments strike me as premeditation. I would hope that, even lacking definitive information, Stern had a word with Thomas.
Getting embarrassed is one thing, tackling a shooter from behind is not an appropriate response; I don't care who you are. It's not quite like throwing a hit-and-run sucker punch, but still....

You are talking about a 20 point lead with a 1:30 to go in the game. If this was a HS game, I am not sure you would take that same attitude. Also there were some reverse dunking and other show boating that did not go over well.

I never justified anything, I said that there are ways to do things and there are ways not to do things. It is no different than a baseball player taking a slow run around the bases after a homerun or going after a star in a hockey game. There are a lot of codes pros live by and it will start trouble if you violate them. Of course I do not agree with all these codes and the way people get upset about them, but they are still there. And if you want to avoid that perception, then do not violate these codes.

Peace