The "And 1"

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

1) However, there are other factors involved to me, more than just the ball going in or not. I think you also need to add in what the total team foul count is. If one team is way ahead in the foul count, I may just keep playing, but if the team that fouls is behind in the foul count. For ex: 9 - 1 team fouls, well they now have 2 team fouls. I would add this to the equation. Also, I would add to the equation the intensity level at this time in the game.

2) This same play in college is a foul to me.

1) I beg to differ, but I also must say that your personal philosophy does not surprise me at all. Call fouls depending on how many fouls each team has been charged with at that particular time. Yup, heckuva idea.

2) At what college level that you are working is that a foul, JMO? D1, D2, D3, NAIA, JC? I'm just wondering if you call it that way in your D1 games as well as games at the lower college levels.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

1) I beg to differ, but I also must say that your personal philosophy does not surprise me at all. Call fouls depending on how many fouls each team has been charged with at that particular time. Yup, heckuva idea.

That would be correct JR. It is our judgement and if I'm in between on an foul infraction, well if the team count is 9-1, it's not in between no more.

Peace

[ref18]

If you're in between on a foul, you shouldn't call it.

Only penalize clear violations of the rules. If it's iffy, it doesn't need to be called. And I don't believe in this trying to equalize the foul count BS, if it's a foul, when the count is 1-1, it's a foul when the count is 5-4 and it's a still a foul when the count is 9-1.

If it isn't a foul at 5-4 or 1-1 then I'm not calling it at 9-1.

[Old School]

I think you're trying to be too correct. I think the times where you are not sure you should blow your whistle or not, occurs quite often in the game. Have you ever made a call and wish you didn't blow. I know I have, just about every game. I'm not saying I call fouls based exclusively on foul counts. That is not what I said. However, if unsure on a given play, that imbalance might sway me to lend more towards it being an infraction or not. Again, we want to be consistent at both ends of the floor.

[Eastshire]

I let whether the basket is made inform my judgement on marginal contact.

Some contact clearly disadvantages a player and will always be called. Sometimes this player will be able to overcome the disadvantage and make a basket. He is rewarded with the "and 1."

Some contact is so trivial that it will never be called. Tough luck.

Some contact could go either way. For this contact, I look at the result to see what disadvantage might have occured. If I haven't determined within a second that the player was disadvantaged, I pass. If in that second something "bad" happens to the offended player (missed or ackward shot, interupted dribble, bad pass, etc.), I call the contact. If none of those things happen, what disadvantage has occured?

Now, on long shots you usually don't have the chance to see if it is good or not so you have to go with less information than you can go with in the post.

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by ref18

If you're in between on a foul, you shouldn't call it.

Only penalize clear violations of the rules. If it's iffy, it doesn't need to be called. And I don't believe in this trying to equalize the foul count BS, if it's a foul, when the count is 1-1, it's a foul when the count is 5-4 and it's a still a foul when the count is 9-1.

If it isn't a foul at 5-4 or 1-1 then I'm not calling it at 9-1.

I don't believe in evening up the foul count either, in fact I had a game last night where it was 7 to 0 at one point time, and it was just the plain fact that the team who had 7 were just murderers.

On that note though, I am still with old school. I do take the foul count into consideration on some plays. I'm sure you have all heard something similar to this on the floor: "Alright guys white has 6 and blue has 1, let's not make anything up but let's just make sure we don't miss one against blue"

So in that case that tells me if I have contact on something marginal it is not going to hurt me to take that play, especially in the first half when more than likely that foul is going to be the kids first(they have one foul overall)

The great official Dave Libbey said this and posed it as a question to a group of officials: "Do you think you can have the same play at different parts of the game, and call it differently and still be right?" To that he answered yes you could, and he was talking about situations like foul counts and the time of the game or the half.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

That would be correct JR. It is our judgement and if I'm in between on an foul infraction, well if the team count is 9-1, it's not in between no more.

And your answer to my second question is?