Penalize Insanity 2 !

[LarryS]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I think that you're setting a completely artificial goal that has got absolutely nothing to do with good game management, Larry. As officials, we react to the actions of coaches, players, etc. You're going to run into situations sometimes where you could be Sister Theresa and the coach is still gonna go off on you. Those situations could certainly come up more than three times a year also, and if they do, it's usually not because of something that you have done or not done as an official. Yes, there certainly are good game-management techniques that you can use to posibly cut down down on unsporting behavior. No, those techniques sureashell will not eliminate unsporting behavior. Some coaches and players need you to show them when to stop, and a technical foul sometimes is the only way to get that point across to them.

Calling technical fouls fouls does not mean that you're failing as an official, contrary to what some testicularly-challenged officials might believe. It simply means that someone is acting in an unsporting fashion, and you, as an official, are not going to allow that to continue. No more, no less. The technical foul penalty is in the rule book for a reason, and that reason is to deter and stop unsporting behavior.

I agree with you, but it is at least a measurable goal and not simply "Do a better job working with coaches"....how do you measure "better"? If a coach starts "getting under my collar" I remember my goal and try to look for a way to calm the situation...if not, I do what needs to be done.

BTW, if this last Saturday is an indication as to how the coaches are going to act the rest of the season I will past three Ts by the end of the week...one coach asked me to "Call and GD foul", but he didn't appreciate the one I called ...Partner and I both tried calming down the coach in the very next game...middle of the 4th of a blowout my partner calls a foul at L, coach yells "For Pete's sake, let them play" and slams his clipboard against the back of the chair...figured if I had to stay for the rest of that slop, so did he...but he was going to do it sitting down.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by LarryS

I agree with you, but it is at least a measurable goal and not simply "Do a better job working with coaches"....how do you measure "better"? If a coach starts "getting under my collar" I remember my goal and try to look for a way to calm the situation...if not, I do what needs to be done.

No, I personally don't think that the number of "T"s that you have to call in a season is in any way at all a good measure of any official's ability to control/manage a game. It's more of a measure of how many idiot coaches/players that you happen to run into in your games that year. Some of these clowns make it a part of their coaching/playing stategy to see if they can gain an extra edge by working the officials from the git-go. Not allowing them to gain that edge doesn't mean that you're automatically a failure at managing a game properly imo. That was my point.

I know that you weren't saying anything like that really, but I also know that some officials posting here do have that kind of philosophy.

[bigdogrunnin]

Rocky and Tome,

Nowhere did I say that the original poster had said the coach was professional and courteous, I said as long as the coach is, then I am more than willing to work with them. Sometimes it IS our job to get a coach to calm down and focus on the game. It may not be a part we necessarily LIKE, but it comes with the territory. In the original post, it would seem this coach needed some "technical" guidance, but what was done early in the game that allowed it to get out of hand? Could good game management have prevented this? I don't know. I merely pointed out my take on "technical fouls," and how I prefer to handle coaches.

Interesting enough, that has been my ding the past 3-4 years, because I WILL give a technical foul if a coach is not professional and courteous. In fact, it is one reason our local board decided to "hold me back" from getting Varsity games. Oh well . . . It forced me to become a better communicator, and my working relationships with coaches have never been better.

[OHBBREF]

Jessie I guess it is one from the state and one from the school Sorry

Big Ddog - If I can talk to a coach I will - in fact I did - The head coach and I had no problem, however this moroon is the assistant coach who is standing up loking me in the eye and making a comment of a somewhat negative manner directly to me.
At any level I work - Munchkins through NCAA - that type of action is going to get an assistant Whacked for sure and as you can see at the varsity level and up they are probably going to get tossed. (I have to admit that history made that decision in this case.)

How this guy made it through the Jv game is beyond me standing at the table screaming about a call is an automatic Whack - he is out of the box or off the bench how ever your state does it and is expressing displeasure with a call - he continues as he holds the ball and delays the game while he gives you some more of his already depleted brain matter before giving you the ball back.

Where do you think talking is going to make things better. There is a time to talkk and a time to WHACK - When it is time get it out and use it - It will make your life so much better in the long run.
By the way if you start penalizing the insantity on a consistatnt basis it will go away!

[LarryS]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

No, I personally don't think that the number of "T"s that you have to call in a season is in any way at all a good measure of any official's ability to control/manage a game.

I didn't say it was a GOOD measure.

[bigdogrunnin]

Totally agree on the Assistant Coaches point! I don't listen to Assistant Coaches. They can coach, period. I communicate with the Head Coach. If the Asst. was complaining, then you are right. Tweet! Technical Foul. Coach, you have lost your coaching box privileges. Shoot 'em, and lets move on.

Best wishes for the rest of the season though. I hope none of us has to give any more technical fouls for the remainder of the year. - Riiiiggghhhtttt!!

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by LarryS

I didn't say it was a GOOD measure.

It shouldn't be a measure at all!

If you have the cahones to come on here and say that a coach said something like, "Call a GD foul" then you should have used that intestinal fortitude and formed the letter T with your hands.
My goal is to apply the correct penalty to every situation for the rest of the season. I think that is more realistic. Matter of fact.....Whack! Technical foul on LarryS for unsportsmanlike officiating of unsportsmanlike acts. I'm adding that one to my season total.

[LarryS]

Originally Posted by tomegun

It shouldn't be a measure at all!

If you have the cahones to come on here and say that a coach said something like, "Call a GD foul" then you should have used that intestinal fortitude and formed the letter T with your hands.
My goal is to apply the correct penalty to every situation for the rest of the season. I think that is more realistic. Matter of fact.....Whack! Technical foul on LarryS for unsportsmanlike officiating of unsportsmanlike acts. I'm adding that one to my season total.

I did whack him...but forget it...not worth the effort to keep going here...

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by LarryS

I did whack him...but forget it...not worth the effort to keep going here...

I apologize, you did whack him (I read your post again).

[REFVA]

One of my personal goals for this season is to give no more than three Ts to coaches (I gave seven last season). However, I set that goal becuase I am trying to improve my skills at working and communicating with coaches. I felt part of the problem was I was "too sensitive

So how do you gauge when to give the 3 T's are warranted and which is more severe which would warrant a T or not. If someone diserves a T and it should be given. I would do a pulse of myself if i'm giving out too many T's. if all is well then it's not me. Whack Him!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I apologize, you did whack him (I read your post again).

T on Tomegun for having a quick trigger.

[OHBBREF]

That is one of the points I am trying to make.
My gooal is to give not more than 3 "T's" this year.
What if the first three coaches you see all call you a flamin a$$ H@LE
are you done for the year?

Trying to call less "T's" is an admirable goal I agree but you have to deal with the situation that is in front of you on ALL CALLS and make the appropriate Call for the situation.

That is what this job is about the other 99% of the calls you make why should it be different for a "T"?????

[rockyroad]

Up until about 10 years ago I would use the number of T's I called as one measure of the "sucess" of my season. If I only called one or two, I thought I had had a good season...ran into a local coach at a three-day training for teachers one summer and spent quite a bit of time talking/visiting with him. At lunch on the last day, he asked me flat-out why I took so much sh!t from coaches, including him...I was shocked, and told him my thinking. He told me that wasn't the way the other coaches saw it, or saw me...Spent quite a bit of time over the next few months rethinking my position...gave quite a few T's over the next two seasons. Haven't had any problems since then...now, if I tell a coach to "Stop", they usually stop - partly because of my communication skills, and partly because they know what will come next. So far the only T this year was a brand new coach...and when she kept going after my partner after being warned and got her T, the assistant - who has been there for a few years - could clearly be heard saying "I told you he would stick you."

It's just another call that needs to be made when warranted...call it and move on.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

- could clearly be heard saying "I told you he would stick you."

I always like hearing that from player to player or whatever. It means I'm being consistent, and that they're adjusting to my game, which is what's supposed to happen!

[Time2Ref]

Each official has a slightly differant personality. Each coach has a differant personality. What works for one official might not work for another official. What works for one official with one coach might not work for the same official with a differant coach. (It's just basic human relations)

That being said, here is what the (Indiana) IHSAA Officials Handbook says concerning unsporting conduct of coaches:

"The basic criterion inherent in athletic competition and written into the contest rules in all sports is guaranteed fair play, that no player or team may gain an unfair advantage over an opponent. Unfortunately there are a few coaches who include the berating and carping of officials in their game strategy. There are also a few coaches who become frustrated during the course of the game and must place the fault somewhere.

Officials who permit coaches to "perform" are allowing potentially unhealthy situations to develop. To wait until "the last straw" to assess a penalty that was "earned" early on in a contest is not good procedure. Ninety-eight percent of the unsportsmanlike reports filed with the IHSAA indicate that when a penalty is assessed with the first infraction, the contest proceeds with no further problems."

If a player travels, call traveling. If a coach deserves a T, give him a T. It says more about the coach than it does about the official.