Being shown up?

[Junker]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I disagree with this completely. Just because one official tolerates or does not penalize someone for their behavior, does not do any of a disservice. Not everyone is at the same level of ability or knows how to deal with coaches. This was a first year official, I do not expect him to handle the situation like a long time veteran. Coaches need to know what is acceptable or not and many times they have to run into certain officials that do not care what they think. Maybe they would be able to intimidate much younger official and they will not get that same treatment when they run across someone that knows how the assignor and officiating community feels.

Peace

I agree, how each official deals with coaches varies according to their ability. The message was sent because my assignor was out watching games and evidently saw some things happen that he thought shouldn't have been tolerated. What I liked about the note was that it went out to administrators and coaches as well as us.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Junker

I agree, how each official deals with coaches varies according to their ability. The message was sent because my assignor was out watching games and evidently saw some things happen that he thought shouldn't have been tolerated. What I liked about the note was that it went out to administrators and coaches as well as us.

Even with a letter sent out, each official is going to have to use their judgment and experience to make decisions on how to handle certain behavior. At the very least the coaches know they are put on notice. Not everyone is going to have to stick a coach because some veterans are going to be able to send a message without anyone realizing (people not on the floor) they took care of a situation.

Peace

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Even with a letter sent out, each official is going to have to use their judgment and experience to make decisions on how to handle certain behavior. At the very least the coaches know they are put on notice. Not everyone is going to have to stick a coach because some veterans are going to be able to send a message without anyone realizing (people not on the floor) they took care of a situation.

Peace

But the point is that the veteran DID take care of it. The problem isn't that different officials handle situations differently, the problem is that some officials DON'T handle them at all. I believe that was the assigner's point. When one crew doesn't address the coaches' poor behavior, whether due to laziness, lack of fortitude, or rank inexperience, it does make the job more difficult for the next crew.

Now the next crew may be perfectly capable of handling this newly emboldened coach, then again they may be a less experienced crew whose lives will be made more difficult as a result of the first crew's inaction.

Assigners aren't generally worried about the JRut's of the world, who can clearly be relied on to take care of business, they're worried about retaining their rookies and keeping their lower level games under control.

At least that's what I read into this assigner's letter.

[rockyroad]

I personally like the way the NCAA has spelled things out for us as far as bench decorum and how to handle the coaches and their benches...at the meeting, when I first heard it, I was not thrilled and thought it was "putting us in a box" so to speak on how we could deal with coaches...after getting some games under my belt, I really like the new POE. It frees me up from having to constantly deal with coaches and their little helpers...this far into the season, the coaches know that after the warning comes the whack and they are responding quite well...the warning point may be different from official to official, or from crew to crew, but when the warning is given - they have been stopping.

[Mark Dexter]

Counting seconds is pretty much my one automatic technical. I don't mind if the coach wants to ask "Hasn't he been in there for a while?" or "Why don't you call three seconds?" Hell - I'll even let him shout and moan for a three seconds call.

When anyone on the bench starts doing the counting for me, the head coach gets one warning. After that, technical foul every time.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

But the point is that the veteran DID take care of it. The problem isn't that different officials handle situations differently, the problem is that some officials DON'T handle them at all. I believe that was the assigner's point. When one crew doesn't address the coaches' poor behavior, whether due to laziness, lack of fortitude, or rank inexperience, it does make the job more difficult for the next crew.

The officials that will not handle them are not going to be solved in a letter or a directive. There are going to be officials that are not capable to handle those situations. Remember these are judgment calls and it is really hard to tell people how to use their judgment in difficult situations. Even we talking about this hear is not going to advance some people that are reading this.

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Now the next crew may be perfectly capable of handling this newly emboldened coach, then again they may be a less experienced crew whose lives will be made more difficult as a result of the first crew's inaction.

We are also talking about a freshman coach. Which means they will not see the most experienced and confident officials around. I worked a freshman game last night and neither coach said a word to either me or my partner. My partner had much less experience than I did, but because of his normal profession, he had a certain confidence that the coaches left me and him alone. Afterwards the coaches thought we were some of the best officials they had seen at that level. I am sure other officials at the same level of my partner would not have been able to handle the game or have the level of consistency that made my job much easier for the two games we worked.

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Assigners aren't generally worried about the JRut's of the world, who can clearly be relied on to take care of business, they're worried about retaining their rookies and keeping their lower level games under control.

At least that's what I read into this assigner's letter.

Whether an official thinks me and others can handle the situation is still not the issue from my point of view. All officials are not the same and no matter what you put in a letter are not going to completely change how different officials handle these types of situations. Coaches just need to know when they roll the dice they might just crap out. If they do not want to get hit with a technical foul, then shut up and no one can fairly stick you.

Peace

[Texas Aggie]

At the dead ball, go over there and tell the HC that anymore such uncalled for comments will be penalized, then blow your whistle and say outloud (in direction of partner(s)): "bench has been warned." From then on, deal with it as needed.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

I personally like the way the NCAA has spelled things out for us as far as bench decorum and how to handle the coaches and their benches...at the meeting, when I first heard it, I was not thrilled and thought it was "putting us in a box" so to speak on how we could deal with coaches...

And what the memo said was....

[cropduster]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

But the point is that the veteran DID take care of it. The problem isn't that different officials handle situations differently, the problem is that some officials DON'T handle them at all. I believe that was the assigner's point. When one crew doesn't address the coaches' poor behavior, whether due to laziness, lack of fortitude, or rank inexperience, it does make the job more difficult for the next crew.

Now the next crew may be perfectly capable of handling this newly emboldened coach, then again they may be a less experienced crew whose lives will be made more difficult as a result of the first crew's inaction.

Assigners aren't generally worried about the JRut's of the world, who can clearly be relied on to take care of business, they're worried about retaining their rookies and keeping their lower level games under control.

At least that's what I read into this assigner's letter.

I like this. JR's right, the high time guys can (or should) take care of things. Yet, many times the less experienced refs are afraid to rock the boat. They're afraid of being cut. IMHO, the letter gives them the license to take care of business. It encourages it and explains why. It puts everyone on the same page and then if some coach wants to complain or cut an official for taking care of business, his assignor should give the ref the "atta boy". He should also remind the coach, in a friendly way, about the letter.

barryb

[ChrisSportsFan]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

At the dead ball, go over there and tell the HC that anymore such uncalled for comments will be penalized, then blow your whistle and say outloud (in direction of partner(s)): "bench has been warned." From then on, deal with it as needed.

I'm all about letting my partners know if a bench/coach has been warned but I don't think you need to blow your whistle to do that. Just let them know at the next dead ball opportunity and move on. Coaches warnings do not need alot of pomp and flair.

[Junker]

What I liked about the memo from my assignior (we have a couple different memos talked about here) was that it give me confidence to work my game and do what I do. This is our first year in his conference and it is probably one of if not the highest profile conference in the state. We are working for him this year for the first time (at the varsity level) and I am guessing we will have some coaches that try to see how far they can take us. As we all know, you don't want to get the reputation of a quick temper, but you also have to keep sportsmanship where it should be. His memo lets me know that I can and better take care of business if I want to continue to work in the league.

[Chess Ref]

I am one of the newer officials who is trying to learn the game management skill set. I also work in a Assoc. where giving out a T to a coach is perceived to be a sign of having BAD game management skills.

1st year-my skill set consisted on trying my hardest not to hear the coaches--I was unsure of myself and lacked confidence and I am sure I projected that to the coaches. Lots of games that went sideways.

2nd year-starts out the same as the first. It's not getting any better. I start practicing the 3 step system then the stop sign and then the T. I actually give a couple of T's. It gets a little better. Then something clicks inside of me. I utilize the 3 step system and start T'ing where appropriate. I talk to coaches-sometimes successfully and other times not so successfully. I even baited a coach into a T. Not happy about that one but I learned what not to say to a coach.

3rd year-I do summer leagues. I talk to coaches. I use the 3 step system. I am getting confident and I believe the coaches are sensing that i will take care of business. 12 games so far. Talked one coach off the ledge. I answer questions. I enforce the coaches box in a direct manner. No T's. No sideways game. I am enjoying my games.

The most important thing for me was I realized the Assoc. group attitude about T's and game management was causing me to allow my games to go sideways. i was afraid of what they would think of me. I wanted good ratings so in my mind no T's- good ratings. I now have the attitude I do what I do,strive to improve, continue the 3 step system, and let the ratings fall where they may. My ratings skyrocketed after I learned how to take care of business and became willing to take care of business.

[Ref_ Fred]

I agree with juggling, You warn him and then whack him. It may seem small initially, but you may have opened the door for other issue later on. So warn him and then if it continues whack him.. IMO

[bgtg19]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Try this technique. Go over to the bench and ask, "Who is my head coach?" Now you obviously know who that is if you did the right things before the game. But say it loud enough that all the coaches hear you ask this question and wait for the response. When no one says anything, then let it be known you will only listen to the head coach and tell the head coach he is responsible for the conduct of his bench. I will bet you a lot of money if you have to give a T after that, the message would have been sent.

Greg, for what it's worth, I do NOT suggest that you try the technique suggested above. I agree with the others who have suggested that the best method is to first request that the coach controls her/his bench and then to assess a technical foul if and only if it continues.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bgtg19

Greg, for what it's worth, I do NOT suggest that you try the technique suggested above. I agree with the others who have suggested that the best method is to first request that the coach controls her/his bench and then to assess a technical foul if and only if it continues.

Well I would suggest you do try this because I have never had to give a T a single time when I have used this technique. NOT ONE TIME. Now I will say this, not all techniques are going to work for everyone. You are also asking the coach to take control of their bench and to let the others know their behavior is crossing a line. You have every right as an official to say things to let everyone know their behavior is not acceptable. I have seen this done by others at many levels and I am amazed it works every time someone has had to pull this out. It also works in multiple sports because the same expectation for the HC is not very different in other sports and control of the bench.

Peace