Being shown up?

[Greg]

I was doing a freshman game Saturday and the coaches on one of the teams are lobbying for three seconds to be called on nearly every trip down the court in the first quarter. I'm in my first year so I consult with my partner, who has been doing this for 10 years, to make sure my understanding of the rule is correct. He assures me it is, says to ignore the coaches because the problem is they just don't have anybody who can cover the center and want us to bail them out. Fine. A little while later, I'm serving as trail official and one of the assistant coaches starts doing a count out loud. My first thought is to stop play and call a technical for trying to show us up. I decide to wait until the next break to talk to my partner again. He says he heard the counting too, but it's not serious enough to call a technical. I'm not sure I agree. The game soon became a blowout so the coaches kept quiet the rest of the way, but I still wonder if I should have followed my first instinct and called the technical, if only to let the guy know he better keep his mouth shut in future games. Anybody have thoughts?

[PIAA REF]

Even though he may be trying to "show" you up, I think you need to hold off on the T. Maybe warn him at the next dead ball, let him know you are watching for the 3 seconds but are not in the need of his help. I don't think I would T him up for what he did. But I am very generous.

[LarryS]

The only way I say anything to the coach in that situation is if I am table side. Then, IF I say anything (because the noise is distracting me), it is only to pull my whistle out of my mouth a little and say "Coach, please control your bench" then move on.

[All_Heart]

I would first warn the head coach that the assistant is about to lose the coaching box for him. I wouldn't think twice about teeing up the assistant after that.

A trick that has worked for me in the past (but it won't work in all situations) is to tell the coach with a very straight face that everytime they count out loud or yell for 3 seconds you lose the count in your head and you have to start over. They will get the point and stop counting. Some officials will call 3 seconds on their team to get the point across but I don't advocate that.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by All_Heart

....everytime they count out loud or yell for 3 seconds you lose the count in your head and you have to start over......

Funny how that happens sometimes

Seriously, there's no reason to put up with this repeatedly from any coach, but especially from an assistant. At the first occurance I'll normally give the HC a chance to fix it - a calm, quiet "Coach, you need to get your bench under control" usually does the trick. If it doesn't, then call the T.

IMHO the reason a lot of this behavior occurs is that collectively, we as officials don't do the best job of setting clear limits and then consistently enforcing them. It doesn't help when they get away with murder one night, then get their feet held to the fire the next. We need to do better.

[Junker]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

Funny how that happens sometimes



IMHO the reason a lot of this behavior occurs is that collectively, we as officials don't do the best job of setting clear limits and then consistently enforcing them. It doesn't help when they get away with murder one night, then get their feet held to the fire the next. We need to do better.

We just got an email from one of my assignors the other day about this very thing. He said that when you let a coach or player get out of control, you do a disservice to the rest of us because that individual gets the message their behavior is acceptable. Great point!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Junker

We just got an email from one of my assignors the other day about this very thing. He said that when you let a coach or player get out of control, you do a disservice to the rest of us because that individual gets the message their behavior is acceptable. Great point!

I disagree with this completely. Just because one official tolerates or does not penalize someone for their behavior, does not do any of a disservice. Not everyone is at the same level of ability or knows how to deal with coaches. This was a first year official, I do not expect him to handle the situation like a long time veteran. Coaches need to know what is acceptable or not and many times they have to run into certain officials that do not care what they think. Maybe they would be able to intimidate much younger official and they will not get that same treatment when they run across someone that knows how the assignor and officiating community feels.

Peace

[Junker]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I disagree with this completely. Just because one official tolerates or does not penalize someone for their behavior, does not do any of a disservice. Not everyone is at the same level of ability or knows how to deal with coaches. This was a first year official, I do not expect him to handle the situation like a long time veteran. Coaches need to know what is acceptable or not and many times they have to run into certain officials that do not care what they think. Maybe they would be able to intimidate much younger official and they will not get that same treatment when they run across someone that knows how the assignor and officiating community feels.

Peace

I agree, how each official deals with coaches varies according to their ability. The message was sent because my assignor was out watching games and evidently saw some things happen that he thought shouldn't have been tolerated. What I liked about the note was that it went out to administrators and coaches as well as us.

[Texas Aggie]

At the dead ball, go over there and tell the HC that anymore such uncalled for comments will be penalized, then blow your whistle and say outloud (in direction of partner(s)): "bench has been warned." From then on, deal with it as needed.

[Ref_ Fred]

I agree with juggling, You warn him and then whack him. It may seem small initially, but you may have opened the door for other issue later on. So warn him and then if it continues whack him.. IMO

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Greg

I was doing a freshman game Saturday and the coaches on one of the teams are lobbying for three seconds to be called on nearly every trip down the court in the first quarter.

A little while later, I'm serving as trail official and one of the assistant coaches starts doing a count out loud.

Whining for the same call on every trip down the floor? An assistant coach showing you up like that where everybody in the stands can see and hear him doing so?

Nowayinhell you ignore that. Your 10-year partner is a l'il light in the intestinal fortitude department imo. Warn 'em then call the "T".

Nip it, nip it in the bud!

[bigdogrunnin]

I have to agree with JR on this one. Me: "Coach, if you have any concerns, I will be glad to address them, but I don't want to hear from your assistant again. Thanks." Coach (turns to his assistant): "Stop!" End of discussion. Next time, Me: TWEET! "Technical Foul, ? Team Coach. Unsporting conduct." I give a lot of latitude to HEAD Coaches, I don't listen to assistants at all, unless it is during a timeout or intermission and they are asking a question or addressing a concern FOR the Head Coach (and doing it in a COURTEOUS, PROFESSIONAL manner) and to let them know their Time Out Situation. but that is me. JR and Nevada, among others, have already told me that I let coaches get away with too much.

[BktBallRef]

COACHES? Greg, COACHES have no business saying anything to you. Yes, we allow the head coach some freedom. But COACHES implies more than one, which means the asst. is running his mouth. This is what happens when these things are ignored. It only gets worse. Give the head coach one opportunity to clean it up. Then, take care of business. If I have an asst. coach who is counting 3 seconds aloud, there won't be a warning.

BTW, that comes from our state association office as well. Asst. coaches are to be seen, not heard.

[agmattbballref]

I like the reply by All Heart...I always tell them...."I only have an Alabama Public School Education, so I may count slower than others, but I always count the same"

[Junker]

Assistants are there to coach, not to talk to us. At a lower level game, I would have thrown a T. Varsity, I would have talked to the head coach or the assistants and assure them if their bench isn't controlled, I'd jump in and take care of it. Friday night, girl's varsity, one of my partners calls a foul early in the game and 3 assistants sort of stand (they didn't get all the way up) and complain. The first time out I walked over and reminded them that we would only be talking to the HC and that they need to keep themselves calm so we don't have to take care of them. They thanked me for talking to them and we didn't hear a peep out of them the rest of the game.