Lodged ball?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

While I can understand your sentiments, how is this different than a ref who works 10 HS games because their day job has them traveling out-of-town half the season? Would you have the same attititude? The state says 10 is enough, it is none of our business why they only work the minimum. If the state wanted 3-games-per-week HS refs, they'd change the minimum to 20 or more.

Camron, I think what the state actually wants is their HS officials to know the damn rules.

Scrapie seems to believe it's OK if you don't know the rules but look good.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Camron, I think what the state actually wants is their HS officials to know the damn rules.

Scrapie seems to believe it's OK if you don't know the rules but look good.

I said 2 things.

1) It's understandable if a college official who works few HS games forgets a rule difference.

2) It makes no sense to keep a college official who works few HS games out of the post-season, solely because he does the minimum number of games required to be eligible.

Those 2 statements do NOT imply that a college official who does not know the most basic NFHS rules should work the HS post-season. Or are you just busting my stones?

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I said 2 things.

1) It's understandable if a college official who works few HS games forgets a rule difference.

2) It makes no sense to keep a college official who works few HS games out of the post-season, solely because he does the minimum number of games required to be eligible.

Those 2 statements do NOT imply that a college official who does not know the most basic NFHS rules should work the HS post-season. Or are you just busting my stones?

Warning - sweeping generalization ahead
It makes sense because they are clearly not dedicated to the high school game. They are only spending just enough time to get the glory of working the playoffs. If they've moved on to the college ranks, move all the way on. Give the playoff spots to officials who are dedicated to working the high school game not the ones dedicated to just good assignments.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Warning - sweeping generalization ahead
It makes sense because they are clearly not dedicated to the high school game. They are only spending just enough time to get the glory of working the playoffs. If they've moved on to the college ranks, move all the way on. Give the playoff spots to officials who are dedicated to working the high school game not the ones dedicated to just good assignments.

Then the state association should change their rules.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Warning - sweeping generalization ahead
It makes sense because they are clearly not dedicated to the high school game.

You have now moved from saying that this particular official in the original post didn't know the rule to saying that ALL college officials should get out of the high school post-season because they are not dedicated to "the high school game".

Anybody besides me think that doesn't sound quite right?

[Adam]

I'm with you, Scrapper. At least on this.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

You have now moved from saying that this particular official in the original post didn't know the rule to saying that ALL college officials should get out of the high school post-season because they are not dedicated to "the high school game".

Anybody besides me think that doesn't sound quite right?

You think it's right to give post-season assignments to people who only deign to work high school games to the extent that it makes them eligable for the post-season? Rather, shouldn't those assignments go to those individuals who work hard all season in the trenches focusing on the high school game?

Part of the reason getting and retaining new officials is so difficult is because of the lack of opportunities available. Situtations like these where people with interest in nothing but the post-season taking both regular season and post season assignments from other people galls me.

Now, I don't have an issue with someone working a balanced schedule, but at the point where you are only working the minimum to get a tourney assignment for the sole reason of getting the tourney assignment, you should just leave the work to those who are willing to focus on the high school game.

[rockyroad]

[QUOTE=Eastshire]You think it's right to give post-season assignments to people who only deign to work high school games to the extent that it makes them eligable for the post-season? Rather, shouldn't those assignments go to those individuals who work hard all season in the trenches focusing on the high school game?

[QUOTE]

So you think it's right to give post season games to someone just because they work lots of HS games - regardless of how good an official (or bad) they might be? Some of those "in the trenches" and "foucusing on the HS game" are there because they aren't good enough to do anything else and the HS groups need bodies...so we should pass up an official who is very good because he/she only did a certain number of games, and give that play-off spot to someone who might be not as good an official? Howinthehell does THAT help the game any??

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

So you think it's right to give post season games to someone just because they work lots of HS games - regardless of how good an official (or bad) they might be? Some of those "in the trenches" and "foucusing on the HS game" are there because they aren't good enough to do anything else and the HS groups need bodies...so we should pass up an official who is very good because he/she only did a certain number of games, and give that play-off spot to someone who might be not as good an official? Howinthehell does THAT help the game any??

No, to people who are good and work a lot of high school games. It doesn't help the game to bring in ringers from the college game to call high school. Not all of the good officials work college ball. Not all of the good officials want to work college ball. Plenty of good officials are happier to toil away in the high school ranks.

It's a high school assignment. Give it to a high school official. By all means give it to a good high school official, but don't give it to a college officials. College officials aren't the demi-gods of refereeing they are treated like; they are just the guys that are willing to give up more family time to the game than the high school guys.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I said 2 things.

1) It's understandable if a college official who works few HS games forgets a rule difference.

2) It makes no sense to keep a college official who works few HS games out of the post-season, solely because he does the minimum number of games required to be eligible.

Those 2 statements do NOT imply that a college official who does not know the most basic NFHS rules should work the HS post-season. Or are you just busting my stones?

Well geeze scrapolla, the OP claimed he kicked not 1 but 2 easy rules calls in 1 HS game. Then shrugged & mumbled something about life is too rough for us d-league guys to have to bother with keeping HS rules straight. If you don't have the mental capacity to keep your rules straight then take some nights off.

Am I busting your stones? In the context of THIS thread you deserve to get your stones busted if you innocently chime in that working a minimum number of HS games should be sufficient for post season work.

and btw...I don't really believe you think it's understandable for any one person to get *2* rules wrong in *1* game. Not for 1 second do I believe that. I know you much better than that my anonymous friend.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Well geeze scrapolla, the OP claimed he kicked not 1 but 2 easy rules calls in 1 HS game. Then shrugged & mumbled something about life is too rough for us d-league guys to have to bother with keeping HS rules straight. If you don't have the mental capacity to keep your rules straight then take some nights off.

I absolutely agree. I didn't say it was "ok" to miss the rule. I just said that I understand how it happens (especially early in the season) when you're only working 10 or 12 high school games a year. If you were to propose that missing 2 rules in one game should disqualify you from high school post-season work, I'm not sure that I would disagree. But I think you might disqualify more "high school" officials than "college" officials.

In the context of THIS thread you deserve to get your stones busted if you innocently chime in that working a minimum number of HS games should be sufficient for post season work.

I never said that. I said that working the minimum number of HS games should NOT be a sufficient reason for being excluded from post-season work.

I don't really believe you think it's understandable for any one person to get *2* rules wrong in *1* game. Not for 1 second do I believe that. I know you much better than that my anonymous friend.

I don't think it's acceptable. But I understand how it might happen. I would have no problem with an assignor pulling high school games from a "college" official who can't keep the rulesets straight.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I absolutely agree. I didn't say it was "ok" to miss the rule. I just said that I understand how it happens (especially early in the season) when you're only working 10 or 12 high school games a year. If you were to propose that missing 2 rules in one game should disqualify you from high school post-season work, I'm not sure that I would disagree. But I think you might disqualify more "high school" officials than "college" officials.


I never said that. I said that working the minimum number of HS games should NOT be a sufficient reason for being excluded from post-season work.

I don't think it's acceptable. But I understand how it might happen. I would have no problem with an assignor pulling high school games from a "college" official who can't keep the rulesets straight.

That's all I needed to hear from you - we agree it's bad for anyone to miss 2 easy rules calls in a game.

The side issue which you brought up about college officials working the minimum number of HS games so they can take playoff spots away from the guys who work 30+ HS games a year is not worth arguing. It happens and is going to continue to happen. But I don't accept that as an excuse for the OP not knowing the rules.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Camron, I think what the state actually wants is their HS officials to know the damn rules.

Scrapie seems to believe it's OK if you don't know the rules but look good.

Sorry, my reply (although entered as if in response to your post) was really a reply to Eastshire's assertions regarding working multiple levels and making the HS playoffs.

I'm not so sure that Srapper1 is really suggesting that...just offering a plausable explanation for the error.

Also, why would someone working only 10 games be a reason for not knowing the rules. I know guys that work 40+ games a season that don't know the rules. The number of games worked is at best only remotely connected to knowing the rules.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Sorry, my reply (although entered as if in response to your post) was really a reply to Eastshire's assertions regarding working multiple levels and making the HS playoffs.

I'm not so sure that Srapper1 is really suggesting that...just offering a plausable explanation for the error.

Stop it. There is no plausible explanation for getting 2 (!!!) rules wrong in 1 game. None at all.

Also, why would someone working only 10 games be a reason for not knowing the rules. I know guys that work 40+ games a season that don't know the rules. The number of games worked is at best only remotely connected to knowing the rules.

So you're in favor of officials not knowing the rules?

I'll remember that next time you b!tch someone out for asking to see the latest test answers.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Stop it. There is no plausible explanation for getting 2 (!!!) rules wrong in 1 game. None at all.

I've messed up a rule in a game on more than one occassion....and I knew it after I thought about it and reviewed it....and I consider myself highly knowledgeable regarding the rules. It may not happen often but it happens....it may even happen twice in one game.

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

So you're in favor of officials not knowing the rules?

I'll remember that next time you b!tch someone out for asking to see the latest test answers.

Hardly...just that the number of games worked and the other levels the official works have little to nothing to do with no knowing the applicable rules. Either they study the rules and know them or they don't.