Layup

[Dan_ref]

BTW, this game was played under ncaa rules. The ncaa book contains this under 4.33.4a:

A.R. 91. B1 slips to the floor in the free-throw lane. A1 (with his/her back to B1, who is prone) receives a pass, turns and, in his or her attempt to drive to the basket, trips and falls over B1. RULING: Foul on B1, who has taken an illegal defensive position.

Also says this action is a direct T:

10.7.5. Climbing on or lifting a teammate to secure greater height.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Also says this action is a direct T:

How is that applicable to this situation? A2 jumped off an opponent, not a teammate.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

How is that applicable to this situation? A2 jumped off an opponent, not a teammate.

Well, it's applicable because A2 didn't jump off a team mate.

btw...might have been nice to calmly come out of that mess with a whistle for a travel, but if he travelled I missed it coach.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

btw...might have been nice to calmly come out of that mess with a whistle for a travel, but if he travelled I missed it coach.

How can you call a travel if A2 didn't put his pivot foot back on the floor after he lifted it?

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

A.R. 91. B1 slips to the floor in the free-throw lane. A1 (with his/her back to B1, who is prone) receives a pass, turns and, in his or her attempt to drive to the basket, trips and falls over B1. RULING: Foul on B1, who has taken an illegal defensive position.

I had a feeling that you were thinking about this. But I think this only applies to block/charge plays. And no matter what you called (or didn't call) in your original situation, it doesn't sound to me like a block/charge play.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I had a feeling that you were thinking about this. But I think this only applies to block/charge plays. And no matter what you called (or didn't call) in your original situation, it doesn't sound to me like a block/charge play.

No, it's not a block/charge.

But the AR is clear - B1 has taken an illegal position.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

No, it's not a block/charge.

But the AR is clear - B1 has taken an illegal position.

But the offensive player clearly intentionally stepped on an opponent. I don't think I'm allowing that to happen. So I don't think the question of whether B1 had legal guarding position is relevant.

[bradfordwilkins]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

But the offensive player clearly intentionally stepped on an opponent. I don't think I'm allowing that to happen. So I don't think the question of whether B1 had legal guarding position is relevant.

From the description, the player made a move to the basket stepping into their normal lay-up pattern, the only difference is in order to get to the basket, they had to pass through this player in an illegal guarding position.

Had this occurred outside the 3 point line and A2 turned around to go make sure they step on the player, yes I agree with you we've got an IF or FF. But on the way to the basket for a layup, I think the rules pretty clearly state we've got a block here.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

But the offensive player clearly intentionally stepped on an opponent. I don't think I'm allowing that to happen.

Why not?

It would have been a block according to the AR if he fell down.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Why not?

It would have been a block according to the AR if he fell down.

Why not?

If A2 falls down, he's been put at a disadvantage. If A2 jumps off of the defender though, he's gaining an advantage.

[rainmaker]

I've been gone all day, so I haven't checked in till now.

JR -- I said T because of A2 using something to illegally get taller. Then I called it flagrant because it was an opponent. I thought about live-ball contact, but the contact wasn't the basis for the technical. I'd be fine with a flagrant personal, though. Either way, the kid sits...

Dan -- I don't do NCAA, so I don't need to fully understand your citations, but I'm curious. I don't think that the illegal position of B1 is at issue. If A2 tripped, I'd see this as a block by the NCAA rules. But if A2 deliberately reaches his foot out and steps on B1, I don't see how you could penalize for a block. It's gotta be a foul on A2, even if it's not PC or charge. It's just flagrant, isn't it?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Why not?

If A2 falls down, he's been put at a disadvantage. If A2 jumps off of the defender though, he's gaining an advantage.

Maybe, maybe not.

I notice you didn't say A2 gained an illegal advantage.