Is there such a thing as a "bench technical"?

[Scrapper1]

This was asked at a meeting tonight. Suppose between the 1st and 2nd quarters, you hear a derogatory comment directed at you from Team A's bench. You don't know who said it, but for the sake of argument, you're sure that it came from the Team A bench.

Since you don't know who said it, can you issue a technical foul to "the bench", without giving it to a particular person? Just have it be a team foul. If you can do that, would it get charged indirectly to the head coach (since it's a team foul)?

[Nevadaref]

We've discussed this before. The official is supposed to charge someone with a direct technical foul in these cases. Here is the penalty section for 10-4-1,2,3,4.

PENALTY: (Arts. 1, 2, 3, 4) Two free throws plus ball for division-line throw-in. If the head coach is the offender, the foul is charged directly to him/her. The foul is charged to the offender (if not the head coach) and also charged indirectly to the head coach.

However, if you truly don't know who said it, some have argued that you can charge it as a Team technical foul. Of course, Team technical fouls are NOT charged indirectly to the Head Coach. Others have contended that the Head Coach should be charged directly based upon this statement in 10-4: "The head coach is responsible for the conduct and behavior of substitutes, disqualified team members and all other bench personnel."

The fact is that there is no clear answer in the NFHS book.

[zebraman]

I would say that Case Book Play 10.4.1 Situation D supports the fact that you can call a bench T and also charge it as an indirect to the coach.

Team A coaches and substitutes are all standing during a free throw by A1. The infraction is detected by the officials. How many technical fouls are assessed? RULING: In a situation where similar multiple infractions occur at the same time, it is not the intent of the rules to penalize each individual infraction as a separate technical foul. One technical foul is charged to Team A and it is also charged indirectly to the head coach in this situation.

Notice that the case play did not say that the referee had to identify a specific player to charge it to. Sounds to me as if it was just recorded as a team technical. Notice that it was still an indirect on the head coach.

[Nevadaref]

Z,
It's not your fault, but what you have cited is an inconsistent ruling by the NFHS. That case play ruling does not mesh with the definition of an indirect technical foul.

4-19-5e. An indirect technical, charged to the head coach as a result of a bench technical foul being assessed to team bench personnel, or a player technical foul being assessed to a team member for dunking or grasping the ring during pregame warm-up or at intermission.

I think that the NFHS ruling for 10.4.1 Sit D should have been to charge ONLY the Head Coach with a direct technical foul. If the Head Coach was not one of the offenders, then the situation becomes messy.

The was a similar ruling in last year's interps about the twelve team members changing into their jerseys prior to the game in the bench area. It also said to give the coach an indirect.

I do believe that giving the coach an indirect is probably the right thing to do in these cases, since he is supposed to be in charge of his bench personnel, but the NFHS needs to amend the definition in 4-19 and change the chart on page 73, which currently does NOT indicate an indirect to the Head Coach for Team technical fouls.

[Nevadaref]

BTW there is an NCAA approved ruling which states that the T gets charged directly to the Head Coach in a situation in which the official cannot identify the actual offender on the team bench.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

BTW there is an NCAA approved ruling which states that the T gets charged directly to the Head Coach in a situation in which the official cannot identify the actual offender on the team bench.

There was something issued by the FED also that mirrored the NCAA AR. I don't know whether I've still got it someplace or not. It's common sense anyway; a head coach has to take responsibility for his bench.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

BTW there is an NCAA approved ruling which states that the T gets charged directly to the Head Coach in a situation in which the official cannot identify the actual offender on the team bench.

After I posted the question, I went to the NCAA book and found the same ruling. It's AR 209 on page 164; under 10-9-1. But in HS, it seems like we don't really have a way to handle this.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

There was something issued by the FED also that mirrored the NCAA AR. I don't know whether I've still got it someplace or not. It's common sense anyway; a head coach has to take responsibility for his bench.

Jurassic, did you ever find it?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Jurassic, did you ever find it?

No, but I haven't looked for it yet either.

[Red_Killian]

If I cannot identify the player or bench personnel who made the comment, how can I be sure it did not come from a non-team member, ie a spectator behind the bench? I would have a hard time giving a team technical because I "thought" the comment came from the bench without definitive knowledge. I may have a word with the coach concerning what I heard.

How would you reply to the coach when he asks for an explanation?

"This is what I heard, Coach....."
"OK, I agree, that's over the line. Who said it?"
"I'm not exactly sure, but it came from your bench."
Try and sell that one.....

How about when you hear a comment from a player on the floor but cannot identify the specific player? If you know the potential players, same as above, have a brief chat with the suspected players at the next opportunity.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Red_Killian

"This is what I heard, Coach....."
"OK, I agree, that's over the line. Who said it?"
"I'm not exactly sure, but it came from your bench."
Try and sell that one.....

How about when you hear a comment from a player on the floor but cannot identify the specific player? If you know the potential players, same as above, have a brief chat with the suspected players at the next opportunity.

You have that discussion with the coach, not the suspected players. You do it just as you outlined, but before you call the technical.
You also say, "If you don't control the bench, the NFHS gives me the responsibility to do the control, but at your expense."

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

After I posted the question, I went to the NCAA book and found the same ruling. It's AR 209 on page 164; under 10-9-1. But in HS, it seems like we don't really have a way to handle this.

According to the IAABO, it's a direct technical foul on the head coach.

13. While the official passes team A’s bench, someone from the bench utters uncomplimentary language. The official is not able to designate which bench personnel uttered the words. Official charges a technical foul to the head coach. Is the official correct?

Yes, the official is correct. Rule 10 Section 4 Art 1c>

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

According to the IAABO, it's a direct technical foul on the head coach.

13. While the official passes team A’s bench, someone from the bench utters uncomplimentary language. The official is not able to designate which bench personnel uttered the words. Official charges a technical foul to the head coach. Is the official correct?

Yes, the official is correct. Rule 10 Section 4 Art 1c>

Here is what I wrote in the second post in this thread.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Others have contended that the Head Coach should be charged directly based upon this statement in 10-4: "The head coach is responsible for the conduct and behavior of substitutes, disqualified team members and all other bench personnel."

It appears from their rule citation that IAABO is one of those others who have taken this stance.

[Nevadaref]

I should note that I don't have a problem with this ruling. There is grounds for it in the NFHS system.

NFHS soccer has the following rule:

12-8-4 ... Coach responsibility:
a. The coach may be cautioned or disqualified either for team misconduct or for bench misconduct that cannot be attributed to a specific individual.

We have discussed the movement by the NFHS to make sportsmanship and uniform regulations more consistent throughout all the sports that they govern. I wouldn't be surprised to see similar language appear in the basketball rules book in the near future.

[BktBallRef]

The problem is that it's piss poor officiating. If I don't know who made the remark, then I'm not doing anything, except possibly warning the head coach. How the hell can you call a T when you don't know who made the statement?