Coverage Areas

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by drinkeii

Same thing - why should I presume, if I see them get screened, that they saw the whole thing, when it looks to me like they couldn't in that case? I'm not saying they had a worse view - i'm saying they had a different view. Why assume that their view is better than mine? Why assume it is worse? 2 views is always better than one - I doubt there would be too many people that would disagree with this.

So while you are watching the same play as me, who is watching the other 6 to 8 players?

You seem to keep forgetting that part, huh?

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by drinkeii

I agree with this.

And the SECONDARY areas are the other person's PRIMARY areas - and are all fair game for any calls by any official, by rule.

Most of your watching, and most of your calls, should be in your primary area, but to say you have to stay out of your secondary areas completely is wrong. Both in my opinion, and in the mechanics of coverage - otherwise they wouldn't call it a secondary area - they would call it off-limits

The plays you have been describing aren't secondary areas, so stop using the incorrect terms to advocate ball watching.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

A great example is when a drive to the basket is going down C's side of the paint, when the drive gets to the basket a player from the middle of the paint comes over to help and hacks the drive across the arm. Sometimes C is blocked and L sometimes has the same angle. A lot of times T has the best angle on this play because he/she is looking through the play @ the best angle

This is a great example...it's also a great example of a time when the T would have a LATE whistle...give the C a chance to call it, and then if they don't, go ahead and crack it...

[tomegun]

This is getting worse. You guys are getting hit over the head with some stuff that these guys have spent years, and money, learning yet you resist. This is an example of the camper who says, "Yeah, but." Once I hear that in camp my ear perk up and I think, "This is about to get good" because that official who has an excuse is about to get the "bidness!"

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tomegun

This is getting worse. You guys are getting hit over the head with some stuff that these guys have spent years, and money, learning yet you resist. This is an example of the camper who says, "Yeah, but." Once I hear that in camp my ear perk up and I think, "This is about to get good" because that official who has an excuse is about to get the "bidness!"

LOL!!!!

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

Have you ever even heard of the term SECONDARY? If so what do you think that means?

It means that you're watching for illegal backside screens in your SECONDARY instead of watching for what you're supposed to be watching in your PRIMARY- which includes any illegal backside screens that may occur in your PRIMARY.

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

It means that you're watching for illegal backside screens in your SECONDARY instead of watching for what you're supposed to be watching in your PRIMARY- which includes any illegal backside screens that may occur in your PRIMARY.

Dude, I can tell that your one of those guys who just likes to stir up some trouble. If you would've been paying any amount of attention you would've read that if you have nothing in your primary then instead of lounging then maybe just maybe you could cover your secondary and help you partners out...My bad, it's all about you and your area!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

Wow!

When you are working middle school, JV and rec ball...NEWSFLASH...you are going to have bad partners.

That said, David, you have several officials...all working high school varsity, state playoffs HS varsity, college ball of varying levels, and someone who hires, trains and fires officials...telling you what you are proposing isn't going to cut it, if you want to be the best official you can be.

That isn't our collective egos talking...FYI, you're the one spouting the get it right line, as if only you can get it right...it's experience, working knowledge of how things work, and most important WORKING KNOWLEDGE OF HOW THINGS WORK WITH PARTNERS YOU TRUST!

Let me help him out.

Tomegun--College official from several states and varsity official
Jurrassic Referee--Long time official and assignor and evaluator
Zebraman--State Final official and I believes works college ball too
BlindZebra--Varsity official (do not remember much more)
Me--Well I have already said some of what I have done
David--JV and sophomore official

Let me also add that over the years everyone on this list has disagreed with each other and I know I have had my fallings out with each one of them in some way or another. This is one thing that is very clear we all agree on without wavering. I could be wrong, but I will take my chances with the people here that have shown they know something about officiating, then a person that has no desire to move up (his words, not mine) and thinks he knows better than the conventional wisdom of very experienced official.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

Dude, I can tell that your one of those guys who just likes to stir up some trouble. If you would've been paying any amount of attention you would've read that if you have nothing in your primary then instead of lounging then maybe just maybe you could cover your secondary and help you partners out...My bad, it's all about you and your area!

Dude, you don't know me. You never will.

And you got into "secondaries" to cover your azz after telling everybody that you'd go looking for illegal backside screens everywhere, not just in a secondary only if there's nothing going on in your primary.

The good thing is that it's starting to look like you may be actually learning something from some of the posters here, even though you'll never admit it.

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

A great example is when a drive to the basket is going down C's side of the paint, when the drive gets to the basket a player from the middle of the paint comes over to help and hacks the drive across the arm. Sometimes C is blocked and L sometimes has the same angle. A lot of times T has the best angle on this play because he/she is looking through the play @ the best angle

Bad example.

The L has secondary coverage on a drive from C on C's side of the paint. Not the T. That is why the L "pinches the paint" if help is absolutely needed. But honestly, the C needs to work himself so he doesn't get straightlined on a drive and the C needs to make that call. The C should have worked to see the gap between the offense and defense and get that call. That is not the T's secondary area.

By definition, there are still several players on the T's side of the floor (or else the L would have rotated to the C's side earlier). Therefore the T has a job to do in this case which does NOT involve getting sucked into ball-watching the drive.

[drinkeii]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

So while you are watching the same play as me, who is watching the other 6 to 8 players?

You seem to keep forgetting that part, huh?

Again with the not reading - I never said I was watching the same play - I have been talking about stuff off ball, out of my primary. In 2 man, this means you are watching the ball (since it is in your primary), and I am watching something off ball, outside my primary, since there is nothing going on of any consequence in my primary (or I wouldn't habe looked outside in the first place, likely...)

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Dude, you don't know me. You never will.

And you got into "secondaries" to cover your azz after telling everybody that you'd go looking for illegal backside screens everywhere, not just in a secondary only if there's nothing going on in your primary.

The good thing is that it's starting to look like you may be actually learning something from some of the posters here, even though you'll never admit it.

Your right I don't know you and you don't know what your talking about. I NEVER , NEVER said to go looking for anything!!!!!! If I said to go looking for illegal backside screens everywhere then find it and quote me. I gave a
scenerio in regards to a backside screen that the C could pick up since it was in his secondary. Now you can take my words twist them how ever you want. I stuck to my point from the beginning. The point is THERE ARE TIMES YOU WILL HAVE TO MAKE A CALL OUT OF YOUR PRIMARY. To say that you should not ever come out of your primary is just simply incorrect!!!!!! This was the original question on the OP.

Last time I checked this is a open forum. The OP had a valid question. To say that this is BLACK and WHITE and that you stay in your area and I stay in my area is incorrect.

[drinkeii]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

The plays you have been describing aren't secondary areas, so stop using the incorrect terms to advocate ball watching.

Actually, they are. Since anything that isn't my primary (in 2 man) is my secondary, and anything that isn't your primary (in 2 man) is your secondary. Otherwise, there's portions of the court that aren't covered by anyone.

[drinkeii]

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

Your right I don't know you and you don't know what your talking about. I NEVER , NEVER said to go looking for anything!!!!!! If I said to go looking for illegal backside screens everywhere then find it and quote me. I gave a
scenerio in regards to a backside screen that the C could pick up since it was in his secondary. Now you can take my words twist them how ever you want. I stuck to my point from the beginning. The point is THERE ARE TIMES YOU WILL HAVE TO MAKE A CALL OUT OF YOUR PRIMARY. To say that you should not ever come out of your primary is just simply incorrect!!!!!! This was the original question on the OP.

Last time I checked this is a open forum. The OP had a valid question. To say that this is BLACK and WHITE and that you stay in your area and I stay in my area is incorrect.

Again, I agree.

[drinkeii]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Let me help him out.

Tomegun--College official from several states and varsity official
Jurrassic Referee--Long time official and assignor and evaluator
Zebraman--State Final official and I believes works college ball too
BlindZebra--Varsity official (do not remember much more)
Me--Well I have already said some of what I have done
David--JV and sophomore official

Let me also add that over the years everyone on this list has disagreed with each other and I know I have had my fallings out with each one of them in some way or another. This is one thing that is very clear we all agree on without wavering. I could be wrong, but I will take my chances with the people here that have shown they know something about officiating, then a person that has no desire to move up (his words, not mine) and thinks he knows better than the conventional wisdom of very experienced official.

Peace

And therein we have an argument which has caused numerous problems throughout history in numerous venues.

This is the way we do it, so it must be the best and only way to do it.

Nothing like being open to different ideas. Experience wins every time. So experienced officials never make bad calls. Experienced officials never get screened. Experienced officials NEVER call outside their primary because since they are perfect and their partners are perfect, they never have to worry about anyone missing a call - because no one does.

Seems like a pretty clear statement to me.