3 seconds

[David B]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

I have to disagree with that. If you let a player stand in the lane for 10 seconds and try every move he's got in his arsenal, that's a huge advantage. He's almost guaranteed of getting fouled or getting open. The longer you let him pump and fake and juke, the bigger advantage he's getting. That's why (IMHO) the rule suspends the count for a player who moves immediately to score.

I agree with you totally, but again in reality I don't ever think I've seen it called other than in Jr high ball and down. (and this is the player who gets in the lane in "no man's land" and has a much bigger player on him and can't get a shot off)

I guess my point would be that when a player is making an attempt to score (which would include a fake or move) we as officials should give the benefit of doubt to the offense.

I think that's what the rule is covering.

The player I think about would be Kevin McHale and his great moves under the basket. Another current player would be Dewayne Wade.

Thanks
David

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by David B

I

I guess my point would be that when a player is making an attempt to score (which would include a fake or move) we as officials should give the benefit of doubt to the offense.

I think that's what the rule is covering.

Disagree. Fakes are not included and never have been included. The FED clarified that in a memo years ago. The rule (9-9-3)should be called exactly the way that it reads. You give a player allowance to finish dribbling to the basket or moving immediately to shoot(which basically means the "act"of shooting" as defined under R4-41). The player can dribble straight to the basket, stop dribbling and immediately go into the act of shooting. That's the spirit and intent of the rule. Allowing a player to remain in the lane for longer than 3 seconds while he fakes and passes are giving the player an advantage never intended by the rulesmakers.

As for Kevin McHale, .....when did the NBA ever go by their own rules?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Allowing a player to remain in the lane for longer than 3 seconds while he fakes and passes are giving the player an advantage never intended by the rulesmakers.

This is quite a difference from what I thought you were originally saying, Mr Big Potato.

Can he stay in the lane for more than 3 seconds if he fakes but eventually puts up the shot?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

This is quite a difference from what I thought you were originally saying, Mr Big Potato.

Can he stay in the lane for more than 3 seconds if he fakes but eventually puts up the shot?

Sure he can...if the official doesn't call it.

If a post player gets the ball at the top of the lane after being in there for 2, and then turns and dribbles to the hole taking up another coupla seconds, then stops and throws in a few pump/pass-fakes, are you saying that's OK'?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

If a post player gets the ball at the top of the lane after being in there for 2, and then turns and dribbles to the hole taking up another coupla seconds, then stops and throws in a few pump/pass-fakes, are you saying that's OK'?

Well, I tend to not start a 3 second count on players standing at the high post without the ball, so I won't know how many seconds he's been up there...but to answer your question more directly - yep, OK with me. What he does next is what I'm concerned with.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Well, I tend to not start a 3 second count on players standing at the high post without the ball, so I won't know how many seconds he's been up there...but to answer your question more directly - yep, OK with me. What he does next is what I'm concerned with.

Sounds like we agree.

Which is good.

It's not wise to cross Mr. Potatohead...

[David B]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Disagree. Fakes are not included and never have been included. The FED clarified that in a memo years ago. The rule (9-9-3)should be called exactly the way that it reads. You give a player allowance to finish dribbling to the basket or moving immediately to shoot(which basically means the "act"of shooting" as defined under R4-41). The player can dribble straight to the basket, stop dribbling and immediately go into the act of shooting. That's the spirit and intent of the rule. Allowing a player to remain in the lane for longer than 3 seconds while he fakes and passes are giving the player an advantage never intended by the rulesmakers.

As for Kevin McHale, .....when did the NBA ever go by their own rules?

I've been looking for a case play or something but can find nothing to clarify.

Moving to shoot? not defined.

Act of shooting also includes steps.

I guess my contention is that I just can't remember this being called in any games that I've attended, watched etc.,

I don't do college basketball but would be interested to see what their take on this play is, I know you will see it in college when the little guards drive into the lane etc,

Surely we can't have the offense just staying in the lane, but also IMO this rule does give them some leeway.

Thanks for the clarification though.
David

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Disagree. Fakes are not included and never have been included. The FED clarified that in a memo years ago. The rule (9-9-3)should be called exactly the way that it reads. You give a player allowance to finish dribbling to the basket or moving immediately to shoot(which basically means the "act"of shooting" as defined under R4-41).

JR,
Do you have a copy of this memo? If so could you locate and post it for us? I'd be happy to see such a clarification myself.
Thanks.

[deecee]

does the FED allow any allownaces for "immediately" and what are the cases to show that. Because "immediately" could be different for someone who is slow compared to someone who is quick.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by deecee

does the FED allow any allowances for "immediately" and what are the cases to show that. Because "immediately" could be different for someone who is slow compared to someone who is quick.

See the RULING in case book play 9.2.7. It says "The count on a player is suspended when that player begins a try for goal".. Iow, you keep counting until...citing rule 4-41-2...a player is trying for goal when the player has the ball and in the official's judgment is throwing or attempting to throw for goal". Throwing for goal is a "try", and that's defined in rule 4-41-3--"The try starts when the player bregins the motion which habitually precedes the release of the ball".. Iow, you suspend the 3-second count to let a player shoot. If they don't shoot, but pass instead, then the allowance doesn't apply.

The count is also suspended if the player dribbles straight to the basket and then goes directly into a "try".

"Immediately" just means that the player doesn't stop at any time during the dribble and/or try to make some fakes, pass the ball or check out the cheerleader in the front row with the big gabonzas.