push with ball

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I'd use casebook play 10.3.7SitB as a guide. It's kinda similar in that you have a thrower contacting a defender with the ball. The only real difference is that he releases the ball first in the case play.

It's a judgment call and you should use the same criteria as the ruling of the case play imo:
- Was it a voluntary, planned act?
- Was the ball contact caused by the movement of the defender?
- Was the act of an unsporting nature?

If your answers are yes, no and yes, then call an unsporting technical foul of some kind on the thrower. That would also make the answer True btw.

Hold on a second here Mr Big Dawg.

Isn't it true that a live ball contact foul is never a technical foul? Wouldn't this be a personal intentional or flagrant foul? But never a technical foul?

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Hold on a second here Mr Big Dawg.

Isn't it true that a live ball contact foul is never a technical foul? Wouldn't this be a personal intentional or flagrant foul? But never a technical foul?

Wouldn't that depend on whether you considered that contacting an opponent with the ball is the same as "contact"? You could easily argue that the thrower never touched the defender. Which would leave you with an unsporting technical as the best answer.

If you considered that contacting the defender with the ball is contact, then yes, you've got a live ball foul. In that case, you've got a personal or intentional.

I like the intentional or flagrant better, but if you say that contacting the opponent with the ball is "contact," then you open a small can of worms. Like what if, on a drive the basket, the ball gets stuck between the driver and defender. If contact with the ball is "contact," we have a foul. And we don't want to go there.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Hold on a second here Mr Big Dawg.

Isn't it true that a live ball contact foul is never a technical foul? Wouldn't this be a personal intentional or flagrant foul? But never a technical foul?

Gee, Slapster, when they said "live ball contact", I don't think they really meant that the contact had to be made with a live ball.

What's the difference between throwing the ball and hitting someone and holding the ball and hitting someone with it? Other than the player letting go of the ball in one instance, the hittee is still smucked with the ball, isn't he/she?

Notice the he/she. I'm an equal opportunity smucker.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Gee, Slapster, when they said "live ball contact", I don't think they really meant that the contact had to be made with a live ball.

What's the difference between throwing the ball and hitting someone and holding the ball and hitting someone with it? Other than the player letting go of the ball in one instance, the hittee is still smucked with the ball, isn't he/she?

errr....aren't both actions personal fouls if they occur when the ball is live?

I'm an equal opportunity schmucker.

We agree.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

What's the difference between throwing the ball and hitting someone and holding the ball and hitting someone with it?

The verb used in this situation is push, not hit.

What's the difference in a subtle push to clear out your opponent while rebounding and slapping your opponent hard in the face? Both can involve use of the open hand. Apples and oranges.