The Superintendent Husband

[Smitty]

You said he was "coaching" - you didn't say anything about him yelling. And even if he was, if all you were going to do is warn him, you should warn him without stopping play.

[deecee]

Skip to ** at the bottom for the short version

Read on from here for the long version

this is almost as bad as a game I was coaching -- we get a steal near midcourt ball bounces in the front court our player in the back court reaches over and picks up ball -- (boys Freshmen) -- so we have a player in the backcour that hit the ball out of the offensive player the ball bounces in our frountcourt not and our player who is in the backcourt retrieves it.

Yes we have a fastbreak and the opposing coach and fans are yelling for backcourt -- I am happy we have a fastbreak (2on0) -- TWEET

wtf -- what just happened -- well the official decided to stop the game to explain to the coach and fans about the backcourt rule and the 3 points of contact -- he even went as far to fget on the ground and touch the backcourt with his hand and then the frouncourt so everyone knew the difference.

I was shocked and the only thing out of my mouth was "How could you stop the game and take away an uncontested layup attempt from us to Explain that rule (a little emphasis on explain)" -- this ref has about 4 years experience and is in my class in my association. His response "coach I have heard enough out of you so sit down for the rest of the half"

well needless to say I responded "you cannot tell me to sit down and you are yet to answer any of my 3 legitimate questions regarding calls you have made on one side of the floor and not the other" -- well after that comment I sat the rest of the game -- still cannot figure out why i got my T.

**part of game management is not stopping the game in instances like this. next time down the court if the assistant is still standing just mention to him (not the head coach) "coach are you aware that only the head coach can stand during the game" -- IMO if he was yelling instructions to the kids and coaching and sits right back down ignore it -- after all he is an assistant and sometimes you have to stand to get a players attention on the court and tell him what to do. Whacking him would lead to another technical for any decent head coach who would be extremly pi$$ed off especially since he was coaching and you just come in with a T.

Like others have said a T is a tool to aid -- used incorrectly its also a tool to get you out of the water into the fire.

***lol I guess there was not short version

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by deecee

Skip to ** at the bottom for the short version

Read on from here for the long version

this is almost as bad as a game I was coaching -- we get a steal near midcourt ball bounces in the front court our player in the back court reaches over and picks up ball -- (boys Freshmen) -- so we have a player in the backcour that hit the ball out of the offensive player the ball bounces in our frountcourt not and our player who is in the backcourt retrieves it.

Yes we have a fastbreak and the opposing coach and fans are yelling for backcourt -- I am happy we have a fastbreak (2on0) -- TWEET

wtf -- what just happened -- well the official decided to stop the game to explain to the coach and fans about the backcourt rule and the 3 points of contact -- he even went as far to fget on the ground and touch the backcourt with his hand and then the frouncourt so everyone knew the difference.

I was shocked and the only thing out of my mouth was "How could you stop the game and take away an uncontested layup attempt from us to Explain that rule (a little emphasis on explain)" -- this ref has about 4 years experience and is in my class in my association. His response "coach I have heard enough out of you so sit down for the rest of the half"

well needless to say I responded "you cannot tell me to sit down and you are yet to answer any of my 3 legitimate questions regarding calls you have made on one side of the floor and not the other" -- well after that comment I sat the rest of the game -- still cannot figure out why i got my T.

**part of game management is not stopping the game in instances like this. next time down the court if the assistant is still standing just mention to him (not the head coach) "coach are you aware that only the head coach can stand during the game" -- IMO if he was yelling instructions to the kids and coaching and sits right back down ignore it -- after all he is an assistant and sometimes you have to stand to get a players attention on the court and tell him what to do. Whacking him would lead to another technical for any decent head coach who would be extremly pi$$ed off especially since he was coaching and you just come in with a T.

Like others have said a T is a tool to aid -- used incorrectly its also a tool to get you out of the water into the fire.

***lol I guess there was not short version

Short version, how many chances are an assistant coach allowed?
I know T's are a tool. I also stated I did not issue one knowing that I could have. Ater it was done, The approach in which I use was it an ideal one NO!!. Was it effective VERY?

[Smitty]

Effective is a relative term. Using a sledgehammer to drive a nail into drywall is effective, too. What people are trying to tell you is that there are other effective ways to deal with that situation without stopping the game mid-play.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Effective is a relative term. Using a sledgehammer to drive a nail into drywall is effective, too. What people are trying to tell you is that there are other effective ways to deal with that situation without stopping the game mid-play.

I agree with use of the word effective a litte over the top though in how you describe it. I got that too.

[deecee]

effective for a short period -- that game -- effective long term no way.

now everytime that head coach sees you he sees you as a harda$$ who cannot communicate and instead of trying to work with him you would rather boss him around.

how effective that method is is of course up for debate but i think its NOT effective.

lets say that's your stance and we are talking about HS -- now coaches are complaining about your "effectiveness" to their AD's who in turn start complaining about the same "effectiveness" to your board. Even though we like to think coaches have no say in us as officials we are totally wrong. Enough coaches complaining will have some effect why because no one wants headaches and all i see your "effectivness" doing is giving out headaches in this situation. But hey we have someone with the initals GW who shoots from the hips first and ask questions never so why cant we have an official that does the same.

Set em up, shoot em down true --

and to your question how many chances are an assistant coach allowed?

like i said if they are coaching and sit right back down I would lean toward infinite...if they are barking at me they get 0 chances -- either a T or next time I can which will be sooner rather than later I will address it with the head coach. Decent headcoaches know the score and and bench rules -- and most decent Headcoaches dont want assistants doing their job.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by deecee

like i said if they are coaching and sit right back down I would lean toward infinite.

Infinite?

Lah me......

You don't believe in POE's, do you?

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by deecee

effective for a short period -- that game -- effective long term no way.

now everytime that head coach sees you he sees you as a harda$$ who cannot communicate and instead of trying to work with him you would rather boss him around.

how effective that method is is of course up for debate but i think its NOT effective.

lets say that's your stance and we are talking about HS -- now coaches are complaining about your "effectiveness" to their AD's who in turn start complaining about the same "effectiveness" to your board. Even though we like to think coaches have no say in us as officials we are totally wrong. Enough coaches complaining will have some effect why because no one wants headaches and all i see your "effectivness" doing is giving out headaches in this situation. But hey we have someone with the initals GW who shoots from the hips first and ask questions never so why cant we have an official that does the same.

Set em up, shoot em down true --

and to your question how many chances are an assistant coach allowed?

like i said if they are coaching and sit right back down I would lean toward infinite...if they are barking at me they get 0 chances -- either a T or next time I can which will be sooner rather than later I will address it with the head coach. Decent headcoaches know the score and and bench rules -- and most decent Headcoaches dont want assistants doing their job.

deecee, that is difference between us. I do not mind if an AD do not want to hire me again. After, the AD and I spoke about the matter and I identified to him the rule so that, he could informed his Superintendent that the team could have easily being assessed a technical. He understood why I took the approach in which I did.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Short version, how many chances are an assistant coach allowed?

One.

We tell our officials to tell the head coaches in the pre-game talk that it is expected that they will be the only ones standing in the box when play is going on. If the assistants are up later, then they should tell the head coach the first chance that they get that he is now being warned for allowing that assistant to stand. Next time, call the "T" with no further second warning.

Personally, I can agree and understand about not immediately stopping play to deliver that warning, as long as they do deliver it fairly quickly.

Of course, as usual, mileage may vary across the country.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

One.

We tell our officials to tell the head coaches in the pre-game talk that it is expected that they will be the only ones standing in the box when play is going on. If the assistants are up later, then they should tell the head coach the first chance that they get that he is now being warned for allowing that assistant to stand. Next time, call the "T" with no further second warning.

Personally, I can agree and understand about not immediately stopping play to deliver that warning, as long as they do deliver it fairly quickly.

Of course, as usual, mileage may vary across the country.

I got that, I understand. One question though.

Once, the official (s) warn the coach about the assitant. Is that identified in the book as an official warning?

[johnnyrao]

Originally Posted by deecee

**part of game management is not stopping the game in instances like this. next time down the court if the assistant is still standing just mention to him (not the head coach) "coach are you aware that only the head coach can stand during the game"

I have to disagree with this. I have always been told that you always address the head coach. The head coach is responsible for his bench so I make it a practice to address any bench issues with the head coach.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by Smitty

You said he was "coaching" - you didn't say anything about him yelling. And even if he was, if all you were going to do is warn him, you should warn him without stopping play.

Smitty, I understand what you are saying. Without regards, if he was coaching or not he is not allowed to be up off the bench period.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Smitty, I understand what you are saying. Without regards, if he was coaching or not he is not allowed to be up off the bench period.

Sounds to me like you just needed to assert your authority and were looking for a solution to that problem. If you choose to look at all rules as black and white, you are likely to achieve your goal of asserting your authority often.

Following your logic, why did you not T him up right then and there? A rule's a rule, after all...

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Sounds to me like you just needed to assert your authority and were looking for a solution to that problem. If you choose to look at all rules as black and white, you are likely to achieve your goal of asserting your authority often.

Following your logic, why did you not T him up right then and there? A rule's a rule, after all...

Good question, I asked myself the same question. I was not trying to assert my authority. Look, I am fully aware the approach I used was not ideal. I take ownership of that. I described my situation to see how many officials gives the assistant just as much latitude as the head coach.

[TimTaylor]

I agree with Smitty & others - not something I'd stop the game for. And it's not something I would address directly with the assistant either. By rule the head coach is responsible for conduct of bench personnel & should get the warning. Keep it short & to the point - a simple "Coach, only one coach can stand." or "Coach, you need to get your bench under control." quickly & clearly gets the message across.

And as Smitty said, remember this is an 8th grade game. The odds are overwhelming that they haven't read the rule book or may not even have one. I'd treat it first as a teaching opportunity - if they don't listen you always have the penalty to fall back on.

IMHO a big part of good game management is effective communications - with your partner, table crew, players & coaches. Knowing when and how to warn or penalize is a critical component of this.