Men's Rec Leagues

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Find some other way to stay in shape for the season and quit! The league is hurting your officiating skills more than it is keeping you in shape!

How is the league hurting his officiating skills? I think he can approach a rec league game with the same philosophy as a high school game. Of course, that is up to the official.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by tomegun

How is the league hurting his officiating skills? I think he can approach a rec league game with the same philosophy as a high school game. Of course, that is up to the official.

You can not put a rec league game and a HS game at the same level. It is so much different. I am guessing that the masses will overwhelmingly agree with me that he should stop working. The number one reason to quit is because it doesn't sound like he is having fun.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

You can not put a rec league game and a HS game at the same level. It is so much different. I am guessing that the masses will overwhelmingly agree with me that he should stop working. The number one reason to quit is because it doesn't sound like he is having fun.

I'm not even suggesting that a HS game and rec league should be at the same level. However, I've officiated some rec leagues that I would rather do than a HS game. I guess it all depends on the area where an official lives and the particular rec league.
Are you saying the masses of officials or the masses of officials on this board? Nobody should do or not do something based on what the "masses" will do.
I will ask my question again, how will officiating rec leagues hurt his game?

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I will ask my question again, how will officiating rec leagues hurt his game?

Around here, rec leagues are often worked by officials who are very lax about their mechanics. No switches except on shooting fouls; just report from the spot of the foul; no TO positions; etc.

Yes, you can still work on your play-calling, but it's very hard to work a mechanically-sound game in a rec league. That could hurt an official who is serious about his/her HS schedule.

[Ref_ Fred]

When I agree to do a game it is because it's going to benefit me as an official as well as the league. If I'm not having fun and don't want to be there, it will reflect on how well or not I do the game. That is when I will get more than usual whiners

[deecee]

after 3-4 years of doing these I just recently retired from adult rec league. you can learn all you want after 1 year as far as game experience. But all these are are glorified pickup games with hasbeens, hasnots, hascants, and hasnevers. Best thing to happen to me was to stop giving a rats a$$ during these games because plainly most of these guys are jerks.

However in the 3-4 years I actually met some stand up guys albeit few but genuinely nice individuals. However the positives are severly outweighed by the fact that THESE GUYS AR JERKS.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by deecee

THESE GUYS AR JERKS.

I think that is harsh and I would like to assume you are talking about them being jerks on the court only. Some players get tunnel vision once they step on the court and basically lose their mind for 40 minutes.

[JRutledge]

The reasons these leagues are a waste of time is mainly because all the things you have to do in at the JH level for example are completely non-existent. I have not ever seen a Men's League were reporting area was honored, coaches were present or all officials’ required proper use of mechanics. I also have yet to see teams run an actual offense and play anything more than a man to man that looks like real basketball. Most of the time 6 guys are on one end, 4 are on the other waiting for the ball to come back. Men’s Leagues are a complete waste of time if you ask me.

Peace

[Ref Daddy]

You gotta be selective in what Rec Leg you do. I - for all reasons mentioned here - have done some. Some are better than others.

Choose wisely or bad habbits can potentially overcome game experiences your getting.

[tomegun]

There are some good comments about rec leagues here. I asked about the orginal OP's experience because it could matter. Many times, up to JV boys you only have coaches yelling and they are doing it mostly for show. Varsity coaches may begin to "talk" to the ref with purpose and if the official has been in many situations it could help.
I say all this assuming you have the support of the assigner, someone who runs the league and a guy with a gun & badge if need be.
Adults will test an official repeatedly until they realize they can or cannot influence what the official will call.
IMO, the game should be about sportsmanship, skill and finesse. Apply whatever rules needed to maintain that and it will work at any level. Normally you can find 10 players who want to play - all others can be removed systematically or immediately.

[actuary77]

Thanks for all the responses. I never expected it to be this much. I read through them all and they have all been very helpful to me, in one way or another. Most of you wanted me to clarify some things on the circumstances behind me doing these games. Here they are:

1. The primary reason I do these games is to gain experience (i.e. see more live plays, make split-second decisions, apply my knowledge of the rules, etc.) and to stay in shape. Money is a very minor consideration. I get paid $22 a game, usually do 3 games a day.
   
2. Another reason I like to do these games is that I just LOVE to officiate basketball. I love the challenge and the "authority" associated with it. Plus, the gym is like 10 mins away from where I live. The assignor has expressed his appreciation multiple times for me doing these games and helping him out last minute. I'm guessing this would help me in some way in the future.
   
3. I have been doing them for about 2 months now and never have I felt personally threatened, like how bigdogrunnin or tomegun described. Not even felt any urge to ask the gym management to throw a guy out of the gym or to call the cops.
   I agree with what most people have said that most of these guys are just "jerks" on the court. Most guys are good guys off court, hence why I don't feel threatened at all.
   To give a few examples. I did a game last night and I missed a kick ball situation. A1 who lost the ball bec of the kick was all over me, saying how I missed it, etc., etc. Then B1 who kicked the ball came to me and said that he did kick it. So during the first timeout, I approched A1 and told him that I did miss that call. You know what he said to me? In a calm way: "Oh don't worry about it. It was just the adrenaline bec of the game. And sorry I was complaining too much."
   Then another guy missed a rebound and screamed his lungs out asking for a foul. I let it go since the scream wasn't particularly directed to me and he just came into the game (i.e. no prior incident). The next time up the floor, after the opposing team hit a shot, he screamed "3 SECONDS" in my face. I had no choice but to T him up. After the game, he approached me and my partner in a very calm manner and asked for clarification on why it wasn't 3 seconds and why I T'd him up. He really wanted to know and learn.
   I think most of the players in these leagues are like this. They get too caught up in the game that they act like jerks during the game, but after that, they are reasonable and harmless people. Of course, there are a few bad apples that don't fit this mold.
   However, this in no way excuses their behavior on the court. They should just play the game and don't worry about the officials. The way most of them act, everything is the officials' fault. It's pretty funny that I haven't seen any incident re team getting on each other. Most of the time they are pretty friendly with each other. It's like the refs are both team's opponents. Haha.
   
4. I've mentioned what I think the advantages are to me of doing these games in points 1 and 2. Unfortunately, I do agree that as far as mechanics are concerned, these don't help at all. Most of the partners I get are nonchalant, they don't hustle, don't want to do switches, seems like they don't want to be there and they only are there for the money. Most of these teams don't even have jersey numbers so I don't get to practice proper mechanics in reporting fouls. Plus, it's running time so we always get pressured to avoid unnecessary delays. Also, the logistics of the court are terrible. The table and benches are on the baseline, hence there is no place to get a good angle when I'm the lead. Also, there is only about 1 foot of space on each sideline. So sometimes, I just miss calls that I can't see because I can't get a proper angle. Of course, they expect us to see everything.

One thing I picked up from your comments are: (1) the incessant whining is not really a reflection of my officiating skills but more of the characteristics of these leagues; (2) I should apply the rules like it were a HS game: no unnecessary contact, move your feet on defense, etc.

[ronny mulkey]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

You can not put a rec league game and a HS game at the same level. It is so much different. I am guessing that the masses will overwhelmingly agree with me that he should stop working. The number one reason to quit is because it doesn't sound like he is having fun.

I agree with Tomegun. All games can lead to improvement if approached the right way. A lot of scrimmages are not fun but I would work as many of those as you can.

Most rec leagues around here appreciate a tough consistent rules oriented approach to managing their games i.e keep T'ing them up until their teams, teammates, or rec league administrators require compliance.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey

I agree with Tomegun. All games can lead to improvement if approached the right way. A lot of scrimmages are not fun but I would work as many of those as you can.

Most rec leagues around here appreciate a tough consistent rules oriented approach to managing their games i.e keep T'ing them up until their teams, teammates, or rec league administrators require compliance.

I think I am just reponding to the leagues we have where I live and if there are good rec leagues that you can improve you skills work them, but it seems that is not his situation.

[ronny mulkey]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

I think I am just reponding to the leagues we have where I live and if there are good rec leagues that you can improve you skills work them, but it seems that is not his situation.

I understand your point that a lot of officials won't work rec league games. But, my point is more officials like you should do your association/all officials a favor by straightening out these whiners by consistently applying the rules on behavior instead of not working those games. That, in itself, is a skill.

Most rec leagues around here have a limit on the # of T's a person can receive during a season. Even rec league players ain't completely stupid -they will comply if they really want to play.