The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 12:08am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Geneva, IL
Posts: 53
Men's Rec Leagues

I have been working a lot of men's rec league games the past few weeks to get myself in shape in preparation for the upcoming HS basketball season.

For those of you who work men's rec leagues, is it just me or are most of the people who play in these leagues big whiners? I really don't like to give Ts during these games since we are expected to "take it easy" and let them play the game. But some of my games, I really couldn't help it. They were screaming right in my face. I figured if I don't T them up, the abuse will only get worse.

One thing that I noticed piss most of them off is when I call all reaches. I've learned from experience (in real HS games) that when I let these go, it would only get worse and the game would get more physical and fights might break. Should I just be more lenient with calls and "let them play"?

Sometimes I wonder, am I really that bad an official that they complain about pretty much everything, both calls and non-calls.

What do you think? Any advice?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 05:38am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Racine, Wisconsin
Posts: 1,081
Find some other way to stay in shape for the season and quit! The league is hurting your officiating skills more than it is keeping you in shape!
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 05:41am
Huck Finn
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 3,347
I think you should officiate games like this. I will tell you why:

1. You are still referring to fouls you call as "reaches" which tells me you may need more experience
2. You think you are supposed to take it easy on players may indicate a need to work on managing a game - there is no way you should let someone get in your face and yell
3. In my experience, coaches and players will whine at the high school level (college level for coaches). We have to learn how to handle it.

I think all officials should do rec leagues to a certain point and then decide if they want to continue or not. Personally, it isn't a big deal to me because I'm going to call what I'm going to call and the players (in Phoenix, Las Vegas and the Washington DC area) eventually understand that all the BS they try will not change it. Once an official feels like they can handle/manage rec leagues then they can decide if they want to continue doing them. I'm not saying officiate a league where you are threatened or anything like that. I just think rec leagues can be a useful tool for improvement.
__________________
"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are." -- John Wooden
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 05:43am
Huck Finn
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 3,347
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodwillRef
Find some other way to stay in shape for the season and quit! The league is hurting your officiating skills more than it is keeping you in shape!
How is the league hurting his officiating skills? I think he can approach a rec league game with the same philosophy as a high school game. Of course, that is up to the official.
__________________
"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are." -- John Wooden
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 05:44am
Huck Finn
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 3,347
Quote:
Originally Posted by actuary77
I've learned from experience (in real HS games) that when I let these go, it would only get worse and the game would get more physical and fights might break. Should I just be more lenient with calls and "let them play"?
Can you tell us what level of HS games you normally officiate and where you live?
__________________
"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are." -- John Wooden
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 05:50am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Racine, Wisconsin
Posts: 1,081
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomegun
How is the league hurting his officiating skills? I think he can approach a rec league game with the same philosophy as a high school game. Of course, that is up to the official.

You can not put a rec league game and a HS game at the same level. It is so much different. I am guessing that the masses will overwhelmingly agree with me that he should stop working. The number one reason to quit is because it doesn't sound like he is having fun.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 06:18am
Huck Finn
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 3,347
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodwillRef
You can not put a rec league game and a HS game at the same level. It is so much different. I am guessing that the masses will overwhelmingly agree with me that he should stop working. The number one reason to quit is because it doesn't sound like he is having fun.
I'm not even suggesting that a HS game and rec league should be at the same level. However, I've officiated some rec leagues that I would rather do than a HS game. I guess it all depends on the area where an official lives and the particular rec league.
Are you saying the masses of officials or the masses of officials on this board? Nobody should do or not do something based on what the "masses" will do.
I will ask my question again, how will officiating rec leagues hurt his game?
__________________
"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are." -- John Wooden
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 06:31am
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,213
Quote:
Originally Posted by actuary77
For those of you who work men's rec leagues, is it just me or are most of the people who play in these leagues big whiners?
Well, it ain't you. I assign rec leagues and I usually have a hard time getting officials for some of them, especially the adult rec leagues. They've cleaned up their acts some but their past reputations still follow them. I've got people that just absolutely refuse to do them.

In my experience, officials will do adult rec leagues for two reasons only:
1) Money.
2) They think that the game experience will help improve their officiating skills(which it will imo).

Personally, I would never do a rec league game unless I was absolutely sure that the league and my assignor would back me up completely if there were any problems. If they won't, then it's just not worth putting myself in that position. Jmo.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 07:31am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: White, GA
Posts: 482
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodwillRef
You can not put a rec league game and a HS game at the same level. It is so much different. I am guessing that the masses will overwhelmingly agree with me that he should stop working. The number one reason to quit is because it doesn't sound like he is having fun.
I agree with Tomegun. All games can lead to improvement if approached the right way. A lot of scrimmages are not fun but I would work as many of those as you can.

Most rec leagues around here appreciate a tough consistent rules oriented approach to managing their games i.e keep T'ing them up until their teams, teammates, or rec league administrators require compliance.
__________________
Mulk
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 07:35am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Racine, Wisconsin
Posts: 1,081
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronny mulkey
I agree with Tomegun. All games can lead to improvement if approached the right way. A lot of scrimmages are not fun but I would work as many of those as you can.

Most rec leagues around here appreciate a tough consistent rules oriented approach to managing their games i.e keep T'ing them up until their teams, teammates, or rec league administrators require compliance.
I think I am just reponding to the leagues we have where I live and if there are good rec leagues that you can improve you skills work them, but it seems that is not his situation.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 07:54am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Western Mass.
Posts: 9,104
Send a message via AIM to ChuckElias
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomegun
I will ask my question again, how will officiating rec leagues hurt his game?
Around here, rec leagues are often worked by officials who are very lax about their mechanics. No switches except on shooting fouls; just report from the spot of the foul; no TO positions; etc.

Yes, you can still work on your play-calling, but it's very hard to work a mechanically-sound game in a rec league. That could hurt an official who is serious about his/her HS schedule.
__________________
Any NCAA rules and interpretations in this post are relevant for men's games only!
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 08:13am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: White, GA
Posts: 482
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodwillRef
I think I am just reponding to the leagues we have where I live and if there are good rec leagues that you can improve you skills work them, but it seems that is not his situation.
I understand your point that a lot of officials won't work rec league games. But, my point is more officials like you should do your association/all officials a favor by straightening out these whiners by consistently applying the rules on behavior instead of not working those games. That, in itself, is a skill.

Most rec leagues around here have a limit on the # of T's a person can receive during a season. Even rec league players ain't completely stupid -they will comply if they really want to play.
__________________
Mulk
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 08:37am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 108
When I agree to do a game it is because it's going to benefit me as an official as well as the league. If I'm not having fun and don't want to be there, it will reflect on how well or not I do the game. That is when I will get more than usual whiners
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 09:23am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,505
after 3-4 years of doing these I just recently retired from adult rec league. you can learn all you want after 1 year as far as game experience. But all these are are glorified pickup games with hasbeens, hasnots, hascants, and hasnevers. Best thing to happen to me was to stop giving a rats a$$ during these games because plainly most of these guys are jerks.

However in the 3-4 years I actually met some stand up guys albeit few but genuinely nice individuals. However the positives are severly outweighed by the fact that THESE GUYS AR JERKS.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 09:29am
Huck Finn
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 3,347
There are some good comments about rec leagues here. I asked about the orginal OP's experience because it could matter. Many times, up to JV boys you only have coaches yelling and they are doing it mostly for show. Varsity coaches may begin to "talk" to the ref with purpose and if the official has been in many situations it could help.
I say all this assuming you have the support of the assigner, someone who runs the league and a guy with a gun & badge if need be.
Adults will test an official repeatedly until they realize they can or cannot influence what the official will call.
IMO, the game should be about sportsmanship, skill and finesse. Apply whatever rules needed to maintain that and it will work at any level. Normally you can find 10 players who want to play - all others can be removed systematically or immediately.
__________________
"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are." -- John Wooden
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Semi-Pro Leagues afrothunda Basketball 2 Fri Mar 03, 2006 04:24pm
Leagues DaNormalkid Basketball 1 Sun Jul 03, 2005 05:22am
Summer Leagues brandan89 Basketball 5 Fri Jul 09, 2004 11:47am
In the Big Leagues!! Woodee Basketball 21 Tue Nov 25, 2003 10:25pm
Summer Leagues Dave Birch Basketball 1 Sat Mar 24, 2001 05:11pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:19pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1