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Old Thu Oct 19, 2006, 04:55pm
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unusual play

(NCAA rules) With 12 seconds on the shot clock, A1, dribbling in the frontcourt, bounces the ball off his/her foot and the ball gets away. B1 dives for the loose ball but can't get his/her hands on the ball; the ball ends up held tightly between B1's thighs. A1 immediately grasps the ball with both hands but can not pull it away from B1's legs. Ref blows whistle. What's your call?
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Old Thu Oct 19, 2006, 05:02pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdray
(NCAA rules) With 12 seconds on the shot clock, A1, dribbling in the frontcourt, bounces the ball off his/her foot and the ball gets away. B1 dives for the loose ball but can't get his/her hands on the ball; the ball ends up held tightly between B1's thighs. A1 immediately grasps the ball with both hands but can not pull it away from B1's legs. Ref blows whistle. What's your call?
That question is from this years test. I think it was there last year too. Held ball.
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Old Thu Oct 19, 2006, 05:05pm
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if you answered it that way on the test, then you got it wrong
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Old Thu Oct 19, 2006, 05:06pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdray
if you answered it that way on the test, then you got it wrong
Still waiting for my books, so I haven't taken the test yet.
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Old Thu Oct 19, 2006, 05:19pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdray
(NCAA rules) With 12 seconds on the shot clock, A1, dribbling in the frontcourt, bounces the ball off his/her foot and the ball gets away. B1 dives for the loose ball but can't get his/her hands on the ball; the ball ends up held tightly between B1's thighs. A1 immediately grasps the ball with both hands but can not pull it away from B1's legs. Ref blows whistle. What's your call?
It is a violation by B1; shot clock is reset to 15 seconds.
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Old Thu Oct 19, 2006, 05:27pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M&M Guy
It is a violation by B1; shot clock is reset to 15 seconds.

I don't get the violation piece. Will it be travelling? please identify the violation for me.
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Old Thu Oct 19, 2006, 05:29pm
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Originally Posted by truerookie
I don't get the violation piece please identify the violation for me.
intentional contact with any part of the leg is a kicking violation, the reset is the clue here
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Old Thu Oct 19, 2006, 05:31pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icallfouls
intentional contact with any part of the leg is a kicking violation, the reset is the clue here
I thought about that after I post the previous reply. Thanks
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Old Thu Oct 19, 2006, 06:37pm
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easy -- this reminds me of a baseball player using hat to catch.
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Old Thu Oct 19, 2006, 11:53pm
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Yeah I called that exact thing in a game one time and everybody and their mother went ape, none the less it was the correct call.
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Old Fri Oct 20, 2006, 12:12am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icallfouls
intentional contact with any part of the leg is a kicking violation,
Is this the exact wording in NCAA rules? Would this also be a violation in high school? NFHS rule reads: Kicking the ball is intentionally striking it with any part of the leg or foot. In my view, a player on the floor fighting for a loose ball could easily wind up with the ball held between his/her legs without ever having struck it.
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Old Fri Oct 20, 2006, 04:08am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref
Is this the exact wording in NCAA rules? Would this also be a violation in high school? NFHS rule reads: Kicking the ball is intentionally striking it with any part of the leg or foot. In my view, a player on the floor fighting for a loose ball could easily wind up with the ball held between his/her legs without ever having struck it.
Another one that we've gone through before iirc.....

Yes, NCAA rules use almost the same type of language. A player might not actually strike the ball with their legs but they're also specifically not allowed to use their legs in any way to play the ball. They say it's a violation for a player to intentionally use his/her feet to play the ball or to gain an advantage by using any part of the leg(s). It's set out concisely in 2 separate approved rulings-- NCAA 4-35AR94 & 98.

There is no definitive NFHS case play or rules language to cover similar plays though. Jmo, but the same logic should extend to FED games also. Iow it should be a violation under NFHS rules to intentionally use the legs under the same circumstances also. We tell our officials to call it that way if it ever comes up. If you don't agree with that, then your best bet imo probably would be to run that one by your local rules interpreter and get his opinion. Mileage may vary.
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Old Fri Oct 20, 2006, 11:17am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref
Is this the exact wording in NCAA rules? Would this also be a violation in high school? NFHS rule reads: Kicking the ball is intentionally striking it with any part of the leg or foot. In my view, a player on the floor fighting for a loose ball could easily wind up with the ball held between his/her legs without ever having struck it.
No, paraphrased.
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Old Fri Oct 20, 2006, 02:12pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Another one that we've gone through before iirc.....

Yes, NCAA rules use almost the same type of language. A player might not actually strike the ball with their legs but they're also specifically not allowed to use their legs in any way to play the ball. They say it's a violation for a player to intentionally use his/her feet to play the ball or to gain an advantage by using any part of the leg(s). It's set out concisely in 2 separate approved rulings-- NCAA 4-35AR94 & 98.

There is no definitive NFHS case play or rules language to cover similar plays though. Jmo, but the same logic should extend to FED games also. Iow it should be a violation under NFHS rules to intentionally use the legs under the same circumstances also. We tell our officials to call it that way if it ever comes up. If you don't agree with that, then your best bet imo probably would be to run that one by your local rules interpreter and get his opinion. Mileage may vary.

I knew we had discussed this exact play before. I believe I had the same call and called held ball before I realized that A1 had the ball held only with his legs. The whole reason I asked the question here was wondering about the language of the ncaa rule, if perhaps it was broader to say contact with the leg/foot was illegal as opposed to striking. Either way, this call falls into the category that you will see it seldom enough that nobody much will argue with you if you sell it. From now on, it'll be a quick whistle and a violation call with me if I see it between the legs, so there won't be time for B1 to dive in and start a wrestling match.
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Old Fri Oct 20, 2006, 03:46pm
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Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdray
(NCAA rules) With 12 seconds on the shot clock, A1, dribbling in the frontcourt, bounces the ball off his/her foot and the ball gets away. B1 dives for the loose ball but can't get his/her hands on the ball; the ball ends up held tightly between B1's thighs. A1 immediately grasps the ball with both hands but can not pull it away from B1's legs. Ref blows whistle. What's your call?
I don't know, but I'm posting it on Youtube.
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