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Old Tue Oct 10, 2006, 11:09pm
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Tip on shot rebound

A1 shoots and misses, A2 tips ball toward A3 but the ball goes into the backcourt where A1 recovers the ball. If the tip from A2 to A3 was intenional, directed, or on purpose, could this be considered team control and therefor be a backcourt violation?
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Old Tue Oct 10, 2006, 11:39pm
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No team control, a tip is not posession.
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Old Wed Oct 11, 2006, 01:28am
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4-12-5 . . . Team control does not exist during a jump ball or the touching of a rebound, but is re-established when a player secures control.

4-15-4 NOTE 2: A player is not dribbling while slapping the ball during a jump, when a pass rebounds from his/her hand, when he/she fumbles, or when he/she bats a rebound or pass away from other players who are attempting to get it. The player is not in control under these conditions.
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Old Wed Oct 11, 2006, 05:45am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref
4-12-5 . . . Team control does not exist during a jump ball or the touching of a rebound, but is re-established when a player secures control.

4-15-4 NOTE 2: A player is not dribbling while slapping the ball during a jump, when a pass rebounds from his/her hand, when he/she fumbles, or when he/she bats a rebound or pass away from other players who are attempting to get it. The player is not in control under these conditions.
Or....

5-2-5: When play is resumed with a throw-in or free throw and three-tenths (.3) of a second or less remains on the clock, a player may not gain control of the ball and try for a field goal. In this situation, only a tap could score.
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Old Wed Oct 11, 2006, 08:13am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukealex
A1 shoots and misses, A2 tips ball toward A3 but the ball goes into the backcourt where A1 recovers the ball. If the tip from A2 to A3 was intenional, directed, or on purpose, could this be considered team control and therefor be a backcourt violation?
While the other answers are correct (tip <> player control), the rebounder could grasp the ball with one hand and pass it toward A3. This would be player control, and result in a backcourt violation. I thought there was some case play to this effect, but I couldn't find it in a quick search
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Old Wed Oct 11, 2006, 09:06am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref
4-15-4 NOTE 2: A player is not dribbling while slapping the ball during a jump, when a pass rebounds from his/her hand, when he/she fumbles, or when he/she bats a rebound or pass away from other players who are attempting to get it. The player is not in control under these conditions.
Logically, then, if the player is batting the ball toward another player, rather than away from other players as stated above, then the player is in control.
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Old Wed Oct 11, 2006, 09:15am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimgolf
Logically, then, if the player is batting the ball toward another player, rather than away from other players as stated above, then the player is in control.
Logically, no. The player is not in control. See case book play 6.7COMMENT.

Last edited by Jurassic Referee; Wed Oct 11, 2006 at 09:32am.
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Old Wed Oct 11, 2006, 10:07am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimgolf
Logically, then, if the player is batting the ball toward another player, rather than away from other players as stated above, then the player is in control.
Jim, the important thing is not where the player bats the ball (toward a teammate or away from an opponent). The important thing is that the player either bats or holds the ball. Batting (regardless of the direction of the bat) does not establish player control. Remember that player control is established ONLY by holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds. Otherwise, no player control.
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Old Wed Oct 11, 2006, 10:18am
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Originally Posted by ChuckElias
Batting (regardless of the direction of the bat) does not establish player control.
How about when batting the ball to the ground? Doesn't this establish the start of a dribble, hence control?
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Old Wed Oct 11, 2006, 10:25am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimgolf
How about when batting the ball to the ground? Doesn't this establish the start of a dribble, hence control?
Nevada already posted this, but I'll throw it up here again:

4-15-4 NOTE 2: A player is not dribbling while slapping the ball during a jump, when a pass rebounds from his/her hand, when he/she fumbles, or when he/she bats a rebound or pass away from other players who are attempting to get it. The player is not in control under these conditions.

As I said earlier, the direction of the bat is not relevant.
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Old Wed Oct 11, 2006, 11:15am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckElias
4-15-4 NOTE 2: A player is not dribbling while slapping the ball during a jump, when a pass rebounds from his/her hand, when he/she fumbles, or when he/she bats a rebound or pass away from other players who are attempting to get it. The player is not in control under these conditions.

As I said earlier, the direction of the bat is not relevant.
Then why does the reference specifically say "away from other players"?

If "NOTE 2" makes a distinction, why ignore it?
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Old Wed Oct 11, 2006, 11:54am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimgolf
Then why does the reference specifically say "away from other players"?
It means "to keep it away" from other players. It doesn't mean "in a direction opposite" from other players.

When you played "Keep Away" as a kid, did you always throw the ball in a direction that was opposite from the kid who was it? No, you throw it any direction as long as that kid doesn't get the ball. Same thing here. Direction is irrelevant. The point of the note is that the player is batting the ball to keep it away from other players.

You're trying too hard on this one, Jim.
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Old Fri Oct 20, 2006, 09:23am
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Had this happen in a game a couple days ago.

After a shot, ball gets tipped around, no team control. Ball is about to go out of bounds but is saved by A1 who "scoops" the ball to save it just like a bowling ball would be thrown. The ball doesn't touch anybody until A2 retrieves the ball in the backcourt.

Would the scoop be considered control?
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Old Fri Oct 20, 2006, 09:30am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukealex
Had this happen in a game a couple days ago.

After a shot, ball gets tipped around, no team control. Ball is about to go out of bounds but is saved by A1 who "scoops" the ball to save it just like a bowling ball would be thrown. The ball doesn't touch anybody until A2 retrieves the ball in the backcourt.

Would the scoop be considered control?
Would you have granted A1 a TO if s/he had requested it during the "scoop?"
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Old Fri Oct 20, 2006, 09:40am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins
Would you have granted A1 a TO if s/he had requested it during the "scoop?"
Never thought about it like that, good point. I don't think I would have granted a TO.

Thanks
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