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Just because he's a state interpreter doesn't mean he can't be wrong. I've heard some state interpreters stand before a state rules clinic gathering and say some completely wrong things. You're guy is wrong. He's as wrong as the day is long, just as you are. No amount of questioning him will change that. |
Thats one problem with NFHS
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As obvious by this state interpretation, the state guys sometimes don't know the rules. In basketball and baseball (the two sports that I officiate) every year I get intrerpretations from the state that simply do NOT follow the rules. I know in our state basketball meeting last night there were several things said that had me shaking my head in disbelief. He said several things that simply are "not" in the rules; however, its a moot point to argue because they always think they are right. I'm going to email him today just to satisfy my curiosity. NFHS wants everyone on the same page, but they don't want to take the extra steps necessary to achieve their goal IMO. Thanks David |
Good points, David.
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Silly NFHS rulesmakers.....:D |
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View it like a delayed violation for going frontcourt to backcourt if the team in control (A) caused (in the OOB rule sense) it to be in the backcourt. If the next team (B) to touch it is the other team, the violation is ignored. If the next team to touch it is the team that has team control (A), violation. |
Interesting
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"A player shall not be the first to touch the ball in his or her backcourt when the ball came from the front court..." Now I also realize that the A.R. posted is a direct interpretation of the rule, but it does seem to contradict it to an extent. |
Finally got a reposnse from NFHS
:) I just now finally got a respnse from Mary Struckoff from NFHS Rules committee about this play that was strongly argued in the original post. Many of you said I was completely wrong and we agreed to disagree. I have copied Mary's reply and her interpretation of this ruling. please see below!
Sorry for the delay and thanks for your patience. Actually, I have given this much thought and have been thinking about it for some time now. I do believe the intent of the rule is that where the ball is touched is important. If it comes back to the frontcourt after touching the official in the backcourt and the offensive player regains control in the frontcourt, both have frontcourt status and no violation has occurred. They just got lucky that the ball hit the official and came back....that can be true of an errant pass about to fly out of bounds and hits the official and stays inbounds.....In order to be a violation, it must be touched in the backcourt. I will run this by the committee in April to make sure they agree and see if they want to make any editorial changes to the rule itself. Mary Mary Struckhoff NFHS Assistant Director Basketball Rules Editor/National Interpreter If it happens this way, I will NOT call an over and back violation!:D |
Though I personally like Ms. Struckhoff's interpretation, it is contridicted by the wording in FED rule 9-9.1:
A player shall not be the first to touch a ball after it has been in team control in the frontcourt, if he/she or a teammate last touched or was touched by the ball in the frontcourt before it went to the backcourt. The current FED wording makes no mention of the play becoming legal if the balls itself regains f/c status. I myself would like to see the rule changed so that the play is legal. But until then I would have to rule it a b/c violation. There is really no debate for the NCAA interpretation b/c the A.R. specifically cites this play as a violation. |
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2) It seems to be that a ball from the FC that goes BC, hits an official and returns to the FC should be treated the same as a ball that is in the BC, goes to the FC, hits an official and returns to the BC. 4.4.4B is the second (BC-FC-BC) play, and it's a violation. So, I think the first play (FC-BC-FC) should also be a violation. |
To those who think this should be legal:
The reason this is illegal is because the violating team would be using more of the court while in team control in their front court than is permissible by the (intended) rules. The best example of this is the trapped player in the FC near the division line reaching back and bounce-passing the ball so that it touches the backcourt or the (division line) on its way to another A player in the frontcourt. If you're in favor of this being legal, then logically, you should be in favor of having the division line be in effect only as a temporary boundary, relative only to ten-second backcourt rules - after which, by the logic of such a play being legal, (and until the team going the other direction gains team control,) the division line would essentially disappear for purposes of rule applications.
Just my opinion, of course. Edited to include: This would give a new meaning to the term "spread offense.";) |
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kycat1, Thanks for following up on this issue. I admire your tenacity. I disagree with your rule interp, but that's not the point. It looks like a positive will come out of this in the manner of a clarification.
I can only hope that those on the NFHS committee can talk some sense into Ms. Struckhoff. The NFHS should not change its current rule, nor should it deviate from the NCAA ruling on this play. To do so would only make the HS game more confusing. I sincerely hope that the NFHS just issues a clarification or adds a new case book play that is identical to the NCAA AR. |
thought I had a pretty good handle...
ok here we go.... a question I got today.....A has the ball in the front court. A1 shoots the ball hits the rim, ball bounces toward the backcourt. A2 tips the ball but doesn't control it, the ball goes to the backcourt, where A3 recovers it. Backcourt violation?? My original thought was no. No team control, no backcourt....however
A player shall not be the first to touch a ball after it has been in team control in the frontcourt, if he/she or a teammate last touched or was touched by the ball in the frontcourt before it went to the backcourt. It doesn't say that the ball has to be in team control. If it has been in team control in the front court then is touched by A before going to back court where it is touched by A again.....It doesn't feel right to rule this way, but what is the reference that requires that the ball still be in team control when A is the last to touch it in the front court??? |
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I don't know which set of rules you guys are referring to but I think in FIBA the rule is:
a) Team Control b) Last to touch in the frontcourt c) First to touch in the backcourt In that case I think it is not a violation, as A1 never touched the ball while it is in the backcourt. The 3rd criteria is missing. No violation. |
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