2 T's on me?

[zeke]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Thanks Zeke, never thought of that.

i'm here for u brother.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by zeke

hint; whenever u ref one stand on the coaches side of the floor. That way you see everything they see.

Nope, don't agree with that one at all.

If you're by yourself, you tell the coaches right up front that you don't want any b!tching. You also need to keep an eye on the bench...and the benches. No way do I want the coaches behind me, especially in a game where it's almost guaranteed that I'm gonna miss something because I'm all alone. If you're cross-court, you can see the coaches anyway if they wanna make some kinda point with you, and you sureasheck can also see if he or his bench is starting to get out of hand too.

Do you honestly believe that a coach might agree with a close call that went against him just because you're on his side of the court? I sureasheck don't. Coaches want all the close calls.

Working opposite gives you a better overall vision of the other concerns that may come up during the game- timing, scoring, subs, bench conduct, etc.- in addition to basically giving you the same view of the on-court action as if you were working the other side. It makes more sense to me to work opposite the scorer's table. Jmo.

[zeke]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Nope, don't agree with that one at all.

If you're by yourself, you tell the coaches right up front that you don't want any b!tching. You also need to keep an eye on the bench...and the benches. No way do I want the coaches behind me, especially in a game where it's almost guaranteed that I'm gonna miss something because I'm all alone. If you're cross-court, you can see the coaches anyway if they wanna make some kinda point with you, and you sureasheck can also see if he or his bench is starting to get out of hand too.

Do you honestly believe that a coach might agree with a close call that went against him just because you're on his side of the court? I sureasheck don't. Coaches want all the close calls.

Working opposite gives you a better overall vision of the other concerns that may come up during the game- timing, scoring, subs, bench conduct, etc.- in addition to basically giving you the same view of the on-court action as if you were working the other side. It makes more sense to me to work opposite the scorer's table. Jmo.

No problem I understand your point but I think you are missing mine. First, you don't make points with coaches from across the floor. Unless you want to get in a shouting match across the floor with coach which is never good. Are you afraid to be in a trail position when you are working a three man and your back is to coahes and benches and you have to deal with the sidelines? i doubt it. You should try it and then critique it.
Now court awareness should be in your game. I bet you are aware of what is going on behind you beside you and around you when you work. If coach disagree with a close call and he will you just address at the appropriate time or stick your hand up and say I hear you and move on. Across the floor...he is going to go out of his way to make his point or get your attention.
Subs...no problem. You won't miss that major aspect of the game. Bench conduct...no problem. If someone acts out you will know. Trust me.

By the you can also work on the floor a little too. Your first priority is to work the plays. Coach disagrees that's when your game management skills kick in a defuse and set the tone for your courage job of referee solo.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by zeke

No problem I understand your point but I think you are missing mine.

1) First, you don't make points with coaches from across the floor. Unless you want to get in a shouting match across the floor with coach which is never good. Are you afraid to be in a trail position when you are working a three man and your back is to coahes and benches and you have to deal with the sidelines? i doubt it. You should try it and then critique it.


2) Now court awareness should be in your game. I bet you are aware of what is going on behind you beside you and around you when you work. If coach disagree with a close call and he will you just address at the appropriate time or stick your hand up and say I hear you and move on. Across the floor...he is going to go out of his way to make his point or get your attention.
Subs...no problem. You won't miss that major aspect of the game. Bench conduct...no problem. If someone acts out you will know. Trust me.

3) By the you can also work on the floor a little too. Your first priority is to work the plays. Coach disagrees that's when your game management skills kick in a defuse and set the tone for your courage job of referee solo.

No, I didn't miss your point. I completely disagreed with your point, and I still do...for the reasons that I stated in my previous post.

1) Believe me, the last thing that is on my mind in any game, let alone one at the youth level like the one that we are discussing, is worrying about making points with any coach. Just make what you think is the proper call/no call out on the court and t'hell with what the coach thinks. Sorry, but I've always been very leary of partners whose main concern was pleasing the coaches. If the coach gets outa line, it doesn't really matter whether he calling you an azzhole quietly behind your back or yelling it at you across the court. It's not where or how loud he saying something; it's what he saying that determines your response.

2) You get the exact same court awareness cross-court as you do from in front of the benches, with the added benefits of being able to see what the benches and scoring table are doing. And if a coach disagrees with a close call, he's sureasheck gonna let you know about his disagreement no matter where you are on the court.

3) Yup, and you can, and should, work out on the floor cross-court too, depending on the circumstances. There's no real extra benefit from either side imo. You just keep moving to try and get in the best possible position to get the best view of the play that you can- no matter what side you're on. And you can also use your game-management skills from anywhere on the court too.

Hey, we just have different personal opinions on this and we disagree, is all. No big deal.

[SmokeEater]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

3) Yup, and you can, and should, work out on the floor cross-court too, depending on the circumstances. There's no real extra benefit from either side imo. You just keep moving to try and get in the best possible position to get the best view of the play that you can- no matter what side you're on. And you can also use your game-management skills from anywhere on the court too.

To me this is the most important part of working alone. I agree with this whole hearted.

Smoke

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You also need to keep an eye on the bench...and the benches. No way do I want the coaches behind me, especially in a game where it's almost guaranteed that I'm gonna miss something because I'm all alone. If you're cross-court, you can see the coaches anyway if they wanna make some kinda point with you, and you sureasheck can also see if he or his bench is starting to get out of hand too.

Do you honestly believe that a coach might agree with a close call that went against him just because you're on his side of the court? I sureasheck don't. Coaches want all the close calls.

I guess I just haven't had that many bad experiences with coaches b/c I don't operate under the "coach is my enemy" philosophy. The few occassions I have worked 1-man, I haven't had any problems with coaches (including one game with the biggest a-hole on the Peninsula). And I have never had a problem with a bench (1-man, 2-man, or 3-man). Any out-of-line comment from bench personnel I loudly announce for all to hear that no further comments will be tolerated. That ALWAYS has done the trick for me. And I don't need to be "facing" the bench to be able to "manage" the bench, my ears and peripheral vision serve me well.

And a coach letting me know he doesn't agree with a "close-call" of mine isn't the end of the world. Most coaches get their complaint off their chest and move on. And the coaches who ask for an explanation are just happy that I gave them the courtesy of an answer.

[zeke]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

No, I didn't miss your point. I completely disagreed with your point, and I still do...for the reasons that I stated in my previous post.

1) Believe me, the last thing that is on my mind in any game, let alone one at the youth level like the one that we are discussing, is worrying about making points with any coach. Just make what you think is the proper call/no call out on the court and t'hell with what the coach thinks. Sorry, but I've always been very leary of partners whose main concern was pleasing the coaches. If the coach gets outa line, it doesn't really matter whether he calling you an azzhole quietly behind your back or yelling it at you across the court. It's not where or how loud he saying something; it's what he saying that determines your response.

2) You get the exact same court awareness cross-court as you do from in front of the benches, with the added benefits of being able to see what the benches and scoring table are doing. And if a coach disagrees with a close call, he's sureasheck gonna let you know about his disagreement no matter where you are on the court.

3) Yup, and you can, and should, work out on the floor cross-court too, depending on the circumstances. There's no real extra benefit from either side imo. You just keep moving to try and get in the best possible position to get the best view of the play that you can- no matter what side you're on. And you can also use your game-management skills from anywhere on the court too.

Hey, we just have different personal opinions on this and we disagree, is all. No big deal.

My last and final comment...I said you get the same VIEW by being on the same side of the coaches. Period. I didn't say you have to please them. You read that in. Totally. Now your next little statemnet pisses me off. your leariness of partner who please coaches...you can keep that and write it to someone else. Don't question my handling of coaches...I never implied I was out to please anyone. And I take exception to that. how do you get please out of being on the same side of the court and having the same view. I think having refereed in some of those most prestige leagues in the country and double figure years in the NCAA tournament....I might have a little clue on how to deal with coaches.

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by zeke

Don't question my handling of coaches...I never implied I was out to please anyone. And I take exception to that. how do you get please out of being on the same side of the court and having the same view.

Zeke, you used the phrase "make points" with the coaches. I think you meant that you could speak to them and make your point without yelling across the court. I think JR took you to mean that you were trying to earn "brownie points" from the coaches.

I think it was a simple misunderstanding of that phrase.

[mick]

Originally Posted by zeke

I think having refereed in some of those most prestige leagues in the country and double figure years in the NCAA tournament....I might have a little clue on how to deal with coaches.

Oh, my !

[zeke]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Zeke, you used the phrase "make points" with the coaches. I think you meant that you could speak to them and make your point without yelling across the court. I think JR took you to mean that you were trying to earn "brownie points" from the coaches.

I think it was a simple misunderstanding of that phrase.

Cool. I'm having a bad morning my aplolgies to everyone.

[Bad Zebra]

This seems like a perfect illustration of why it is NEVER , under any circumstances, a good idea to try to call a game single handed. I don't care what level, age, size of gym/court. It always ends badly.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I guess I just haven't had that many bad experiences with coaches b/c I don't operate under the "coach is my enemy" philosophy. .

Neither do I, and I also never said anything like that that anywhere either. What I said was that you can use the exact same game management skills from cross-court as you can from in front of the benches. In 3-man coverage, are the official(s) tableside the only ones able to use those skills? The officials across the court can't?

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

What I said was that you can use the exact same game management skills from cross-court as you can from in front of the benches.

How can you have a quiet conversation with a coach from the opposite side of the court?

[mick]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

How can you have a quiet conversation with a coach from the opposite side of the court?

Blow the whistle and walk over there.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

How can you have a quiet conversation with a coach from the opposite side of the court?

It's easy

Coach: "HEY CHUCK! GET YER HEAD OUTTAYERAZZ! YOU'RE KILLING ME!!!

Chuck: "whisper whisper whisper..."

Coach: "WHA???! HOW CAN I HEAR YOU FROM ALL THE WAY OVER THERE??!"

Chuck: "whisper whisper whisper..."



Yeah, it's a pretty dumb statement JR made. Maybe he needs a time out?