T or no T ???

[rainmaker]

Post-game analysis grid:

Did the T make the game better? If yes, then it was right. go back through and see what made it the right thing at that point.

If no, try to figure out why. Perhaps your emotions were out of control? Perhaps you should have given it earlier? Perhaps you need to work on a more effective way to "talk kids down"? Perhaps you need to "read" the kids more perceptively?

If it's a weakness in seeing the game situation realistically, attend some games as a spectator and then ask questions of the refs. "Why did you do it that way? What did he say?"

If it's a more personal emotional issue, spend some time reading books on psychology, or even seeing a counselor, to figure it out. You'll get the hang of game management a lot faster if you are willing to deal with your orwn issues.

If you felt good about the T because you knew it was the right thing to do, then it was undoubtedly the right thing to do. If the good feeling had to do with a sort of power grab, or revenge thing, then you've got some work to do.

Either way, learn from it. Think about it. talk about it. Hey, that's what you're doing! You're on the right track.

[truerookie]

[QUOTE=MidMadness]Boys JV game...kid has been crying the whole game about getting fouled practically everytime to the basket. Middle of the 3rd quarter kid goes in, misses layup, turns to me and says when are you going to toot the horn ref???? Perfect spot for a technical or not worth it there??? What do you think??

This is how I would have handle the situation.

It does not matter whether it is a kid or coach. When they are complaining or questioning fouls, violations etc.

Me: "That is the first and last time you get to officiate the game".

This is their warning.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by RonRef

At the JV level I would let the coach know that this player is being a pain in my A$$ and to take care of him.

And if the coach decides he doesn't want to do your job for you?

There's a whole buncha coaches out there that don't want officials telling them how to do their job. If the kid yaps after you tell the coach, you still are gonna have to do something about it. As practically everybody else said, take care of bidness early when it's still a minor problem.

[RonRef]

[QUOTE=truerookie]

Originally Posted by MidMadness

Boys JV game...kid has been crying the whole game about getting fouled practically everytime to the basket. Middle of the 3rd quarter kid goes in, misses layup, turns to me and says when are you going to toot the horn ref???? Perfect spot for a technical or not worth it there??? What do you think??

This is how I would have handle the situation.

It does not matter whether it is a kid or coach. When they are complaining or questioning fouls, violations etc.

Me: "That is the first and last time you get to officiate the game".

This is their warning.

Truerookie,

"That is the first and last time you get to officiate the game".

This is not an acceptable response, all you need to say is "coach I have had enough" with a stop sign, that is it! We don't need to be sarcastic!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RonRef

If you haven't called three seconds all game are you going to call it in the last 2 minutes of the game, if you didn't take care of this kid in the first half I don't think what the kid said warranted a "T" at that point in the game. I got the feeling that he felt "GREAT" to "T" this kid up, not like a "great call" on a block/charge.

Calling 3 seconds and conduct fouls are different things. I know it is popular to say all calls are the same. I just have never had a supervisor ever tell his staff to inform him when you call a 3 second call. If a kid does something that warrants a T, the kid got a T. For all we know this was the first type of comment that he made. This is not like this call was made in the last second of the game and the points actually decided the outcome.

Peace

[RonRef]

[QUOTE=JRutledge]Calling 3 seconds and conduct fouls are different things. I know it is popular to say all calls are the same. I just have never had a supervisor ever tell his staff to inform him when you call a 3 second call. If a kid does something that warrants a T, the kid got a T. For all we know this was the first type of comment that he made. This is not like this call was made in the last second of the game and the points actually decided the outcome.

JRut, we are not going to agree on this one, I will leave it at that!

[Brad]

[QUOTE=RonRef]

Originally Posted by truerookie

"That is the first and last time you get to officiate the game".

This is not an acceptable response

Completely agree! That is not something appropriate to say to a player or a coach.

This especially does not work with players -- many times if you try to be the "enforcer" they are going to come right back at you.

Instead, take a second during a free throw to talk with the player and say something like, "Hey -- I need your help here... You concentrate on playing and let me take care of the officiating, ok?"

You have to do this in a manner that doesn't embarrass the kid as well. Many times the player will respond in a positive manner -- if he/she doesn't, then you know that you are going to have to handle it in a different manner.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Brad

Completely agree! That is not something appropriate to say to a player or a coach.

This especially does not work with players -- many times if you try to be the "enforcer" they are going to come right back at you.

Instead, take a second during a free throw to talk with the player and say something like, "Hey -- I need your help here... You concentrate on playing and let me take care of the officiating, ok?"

You have to do this in a manner that doesn't embarrass the kid as well. Many times the player will respond in a positive manner -- if he/she doesn't, then you know that you are going to have to handle it in a different manner.

I disagree with this to some extent. Not all kids respond to the same type of comments. I can tell you if you work in some areas and you try to be a "nice guy" they will eat you up and talk back to you even more. This comment was not profane or necessarily confrontational. You are letting the kid know that he needs to play the game and not worry about what you are doing. I tell kids often "This is not the NBA." They get the message and we move on. Of course you have to have the demeanor to pull it off and you have to say it in the right tone. If this comment gets the kid to shut up and play the game that is what we want. We have many tools at are disposal and every tool does not work for every situation. This might work fine under the right circumstances and with the right official.

Peace

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I disagree with this to some extent. Not all kids respond to the same type of comments. I can tell you if you work in some areas and you try to be a "nice guy" they will eat you up and talk back to you even more. This comment was not profane or necessarily confrontational. You are letting the kid know that he needs to play the game and not worry about what you are doing. I tell kids often "This is not the NBA." They get the message and we move on. Of course you have to have the demeanor to pull it off and you have to say it in the right tone. If this comment gets the kid to shut up and play the game that is what we want. We have many tools at are disposal and every tool does not work for every situation. This might work fine under the right circumstances and with the right official.

Peace

Jeff, you're right that it's important for each ref to size up the situation and the personalities in each game. Sometimes a tough guy style works well, and sometimes it backfires. The same with a nice guy approach. Personally, I find that I can't go too far in one direction or the other, and I try as hard as I can to stay very, very neutral in terms of confrontation and appeasement. But that's just what works for me. In this game, the more styles a ref can use, and the more types of kids she can read well, the better the reffing will be.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And if the coach decides he doesn't want to do your job for you?

There's a whole buncha coaches out there that don't want officials telling them how to do their job. If the kid yaps after you tell the coach, you still are gonna have to do something about it. As practically everybody else said, take care of bidness early when it's still a minor problem.

Are you saying that you would never involve the coach?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Are you saying that you would never involve the coach?

No.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Jeff, you're right that it's important for each ref to size up the situation and the personalities in each game. Sometimes a tough guy style works well, and sometimes it backfires. The same with a nice guy approach. Personally, I find that I can't go too far in one direction or the other, and I try as hard as I can to stay very, very neutral in terms of confrontation and appeasement. But that's just what works for me. In this game, the more styles a ref can use, and the more types of kids she can read well, the better the reffing will be.

Ultimately players want to play. Sometimes you have to let them know that if they want to play, they need to knock off the BS. How you reach that conclusion and what you say is going to vary greatly based on the experience you have and the type of game you are working. I know some players approach me when they would never approach my partners. Knowing this you have to say sometimes let it be known they need to move on. I cannot tell you what to say or what not to say. I also cannot tell you what is appropriate. As far as I am concerned if we do not curse or use totally inappropriate language, we have the right to tell players what we need to so they will comply. If they do not comply, you do what you have to do.

Peace

[Brad]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I disagree with this to some extent. Not all kids respond to the same type of comments.

Agreed... I guess you have to know your audience. However, I always try a Dale Carnegie approach before a confrontational one.

I'm good at both though

[truerookie]

[QUOTE=RonRef]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Truerookie,

"That is the first and last time you get to officiate the game".

This is not an acceptable response, all you need to say is "coach I have had enough" with a stop sign, that is it! We don't need to be sarcastic!

I don't believe the comment is sarcastic. I am letting those personnel involved know their behavior will not be tolerated. Bottomline they are trying to influence how the game is officiated.

[truerookie]

[QUOTE=Brad][QUOTE=RonRef]

Completely agree! That is not something appropriate to say to a player or a coach.


I do not see eye to eye with you on this one. First, it is ok for me to try and strike a bargain with a player by asking for his help to stop behavior that is unsporting. (Not happening!!) Second, I believe you should set the tone on what is acceptable or not. It will make the game that much funnier for all parties involved.

"Hey -- I need your help here... You concentrate on playing and let me take care of the officiating, ok?"

Is this not similiar to what I stated earlier?