T or no T ???

MidMadness · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 14, 2006, 10:46am

Boys JV game...kid has been crying the whole game about getting fouled practically everytime to the basket. Middle of the 3rd quarter kid goes in, misses layup, turns to me and says when are you going to toot the horn ref???? Perfect spot for a technical or not worth it there??? What do you think??

For the record, I t'd him up right there, and it felt great, but I want to make sure you guys felt it merited it. Thanks

tjones1 · #2 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 14, 2006, 10:59am

Well... for me, if you had warned him and told him you'd had enough by stop signing him...you have no choice.

By not warning him, you set up the possible situation to have to give the coach one as well. But I wasn't there and I don't know the type of tone or the body language that was used.

Then again, you answered his question, didn't you?

euby · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 14, 2006, 11:03am

In a JV game...if you warned him...I would have T'd.

mick · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 14, 2006, 11:06am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidMadness

Boys JV game...kid has been crying the whole game about getting fouled practically everytime to the basket. Middle of the 3rd quarter kid goes in, misses layup, turns to me and says when are you going to toot the horn ref???? Perfect spot for a technical or not worth it there??? What do you think??

For the record, I t'd him up right there, and it felt great, but I want to make sure you guys felt it merited it. Thanks

MidMadness,
Your game. Your call.
Looked okay from U.P. here.
mick

zebraman · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 14, 2006, 11:12am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidMadness

Boys JV game...kid has been crying the whole game about getting fouled practically everytime to the basket. Middle of the 3rd quarter kid goes in, misses layup, turns to me and says when are you going to toot the horn ref???? Perfect spot for a technical or not worth it there??? What do you think??

For the record, I t'd him up right there, and it felt great, but I want to make sure you guys felt it merited it. Thanks

This is one of those situations that justifies the big bucks we get.

You need to decided how to manage the situation.

Personally, if the kid has been "crying the whole game," why are you waiting until the 3rd quarter to address it? I'm not saying you should have called a T earlier, but there may have been a way to get him to "stop crying" way before this (two examples are going through his coach or going through his captain).

Usually, we can nip situations like this early in the game without a T. JMO.

Z

stripes · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 14, 2006, 11:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by zebraman

This is one of those situations that justifies the big bucks we get.

You need to decided how to manage the situation.

Personally, if the kid has been "crying the whole game," why are you waiting until the 3rd quarter to address it? I'm not saying you should have called a T earlier, but there may have been a way to get him to "stop crying" way before this (two examples are going through his coach or going through his captain).

Usually, we can nip situations like this early in the game without a T. JMO.

Z

This is the heart of the matter for me. Why wait until the third Q? I think this needs to be addressed at the first occurance. To quote Barney Fife, "Nip it in the bud!"

Don't let kids become an issue because you ignore them. Address problems and make them go away.

Great answer from Z.

JRutledge · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 14, 2006, 11:42am

Usually a kid that is a problem can be figured out early in the game. I am not sure I would have allowed this kid that much leeway until the 3rd quarter. I have no problem with the T at this time. It just makes me wonder if this kid was not complaining a lot during the 1st 2 quarters and this behavior. If this had been addressed earlier in the game when there were signs of this complaining (if there were signs), then you might not have had to T this kid. I have no problem with the T for what the kid said. It is a JV game and that kid should be worrying about trying to get better so he will one day play the varsity. Officiating should not be is focus. Whether we like it or not, when you give a T it can bring a greater focus on what we do and how we reacted to this behavior and previous behaviors during the course of the game.

Peace

Snake~eyes · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 14, 2006, 11:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidMadness

Boys JV game...kid has been crying the whole game about getting fouled practically everytime to the basket. Middle of the 3rd quarter kid goes in, misses layup, turns to me and says when are you going to toot the horn ref???? Perfect spot for a technical or not worth it there??? What do you think??

For the record, I t'd him up right there, and it felt great, but I want to make sure you guys felt it merited it. Thanks

All I want to know is why it took so long to T him up. If he's whining the whole game you should have whacked him in the 2nd quarter IF NOT the 1st.

Jimgolf · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 14, 2006, 12:19pm

Just curious, MidMadness, not criticizing, or even suggesting, but was there contact on all of these whines? Did you ever tell him "Incidental contact, no foul"?

While you are under no obligation to do this, sometimes this can help prevent all the whining (sometimes not). On the JV level, this might be the first time the kid has been exposed to HS contact, and may be used to chippy fouls being called at the Y.

RonRef · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 14, 2006, 12:51pm

I don't think what he said in this situation deserved a "T", I would have just let it alone at this point of the game. What I do have a real problem with is that you said it felt great. You feel great when you give a kid in a JV game a "T"? A "T" is just another call like a block/charge or a travel, did you feel great when you called traveling during this game also?

JRutledge · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 14, 2006, 12:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonRef

I don't think what he said in this situation deserved a "T", I would have just let it alone at this point of the game. What I do have a real problem with is that you said it felt great. You feel great when you give a kid in a JV game a "T"? A "T" is just another call like a block/charge or a travel, did you feel great when you called traveling during this game also?

What difference does it make if he felt good about this call? Do you not ever feel good about getting a block/charge call right?

Are you saying we should never T players in the 3rd quarter? I thought you said that a T was just another call? If it is what you feel why all the "qualifications" in your response?

Peace

RonRef · #12 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 14, 2006, 01:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

What difference does it make if he felt good about this call? Do you not ever feel good about getting a block/charge call right?

Are you saying we should never T players in the 3rd quarter? I thought you said that a T was just another call? If it is what you feel why all the "qualifications" in your response?

Peace

If you haven't called three seconds all game are you going to call it in the last 2 minutes of the game, if you didn't take care of this kid in the first half I don't think what the kid said warranted a "T" at that point in the game. I got the feeling that he felt "GREAT" to "T" this kid up, not like a "great call" on a block/charge.

MidMadness · #13 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 14, 2006, 01:17pm

I had communicated with him a couple times about not needing him help and said "nothing there" a couple times. The kid was having a bad game and wanted to blame it on me. Thats why it felt good as he was being a lil s**t all game. By the way guys I appreciate the input.

Brad · #14 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 14, 2006, 01:19pm

Quote:

Personally, if the kid has been "crying the whole game," why are you waiting until the 3rd quarter to address it?

This was going to be my exact response. Handle your "bidness" early on in the game... If you let a kid cry for 3 quarters that is your fault.

Address it early on with a warning -- then whack!!!

RonRef · #15 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 14, 2006, 01:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad

This was going to be my exact response. Handle your "bidness" early on in the game... If you let a kid cry for 3 quarters that is your fault.

Address it early on with a warning -- then whack!!!

At the JV level I would let the coach know that this player is being a pain in my A$$ and to take care of him.