T or no T ???

Snake~eyes · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 14, 2006, 11:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidMadness

Boys JV game...kid has been crying the whole game about getting fouled practically everytime to the basket. Middle of the 3rd quarter kid goes in, misses layup, turns to me and says when are you going to toot the horn ref???? Perfect spot for a technical or not worth it there??? What do you think??

For the record, I t'd him up right there, and it felt great, but I want to make sure you guys felt it merited it. Thanks

All I want to know is why it took so long to T him up. If he's whining the whole game you should have whacked him in the 2nd quarter IF NOT the 1st.

Jimgolf · #2 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 14, 2006, 12:19pm

Just curious, MidMadness, not criticizing, or even suggesting, but was there contact on all of these whines? Did you ever tell him "Incidental contact, no foul"?

While you are under no obligation to do this, sometimes this can help prevent all the whining (sometimes not). On the JV level, this might be the first time the kid has been exposed to HS contact, and may be used to chippy fouls being called at the Y.

RonRef · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 14, 2006, 12:51pm

I don't think what he said in this situation deserved a "T", I would have just let it alone at this point of the game. What I do have a real problem with is that you said it felt great. You feel great when you give a kid in a JV game a "T"? A "T" is just another call like a block/charge or a travel, did you feel great when you called traveling during this game also?

JRutledge · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 14, 2006, 12:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonRef

I don't think what he said in this situation deserved a "T", I would have just let it alone at this point of the game. What I do have a real problem with is that you said it felt great. You feel great when you give a kid in a JV game a "T"? A "T" is just another call like a block/charge or a travel, did you feel great when you called traveling during this game also?

What difference does it make if he felt good about this call? Do you not ever feel good about getting a block/charge call right?

Are you saying we should never T players in the 3rd quarter? I thought you said that a T was just another call? If it is what you feel why all the "qualifications" in your response?

Peace

RonRef · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 14, 2006, 01:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

What difference does it make if he felt good about this call? Do you not ever feel good about getting a block/charge call right?

Are you saying we should never T players in the 3rd quarter? I thought you said that a T was just another call? If it is what you feel why all the "qualifications" in your response?

Peace

If you haven't called three seconds all game are you going to call it in the last 2 minutes of the game, if you didn't take care of this kid in the first half I don't think what the kid said warranted a "T" at that point in the game. I got the feeling that he felt "GREAT" to "T" this kid up, not like a "great call" on a block/charge.

Brad · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 14, 2006, 01:19pm

Quote:

Personally, if the kid has been "crying the whole game," why are you waiting until the 3rd quarter to address it?

This was going to be my exact response. Handle your "bidness" early on in the game... If you let a kid cry for 3 quarters that is your fault.

Address it early on with a warning -- then whack!!!

RonRef · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 14, 2006, 01:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad

This was going to be my exact response. Handle your "bidness" early on in the game... If you let a kid cry for 3 quarters that is your fault.

Address it early on with a warning -- then whack!!!

At the JV level I would let the coach know that this player is being a pain in my A$$ and to take care of him.

JRutledge · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 14, 2006, 02:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonRef

If you haven't called three seconds all game are you going to call it in the last 2 minutes of the game, if you didn't take care of this kid in the first half I don't think what the kid said warranted a "T" at that point in the game. I got the feeling that he felt "GREAT" to "T" this kid up, not like a "great call" on a block/charge.

Calling 3 seconds and conduct fouls are different things. I know it is popular to say all calls are the same. I just have never had a supervisor ever tell his staff to inform him when you call a 3 second call. If a kid does something that warrants a T, the kid got a T. For all we know this was the first type of comment that he made. This is not like this call was made in the last second of the game and the points actually decided the outcome.

Peace

RonRef · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 14, 2006, 02:17pm

[QUOTE=JRutledge]Calling 3 seconds and conduct fouls are different things. I know it is popular to say all calls are the same. I just have never had a supervisor ever tell his staff to inform him when you call a 3 second call. If a kid does something that warrants a T, the kid got a T. For all we know this was the first type of comment that he made. This is not like this call was made in the last second of the game and the points actually decided the outcome.

JRut, we are not going to agree on this one, I will leave it at that!

rainmaker · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 14, 2006, 01:34pm

Post-game analysis grid:

Did the T make the game better? If yes, then it was right. go back through and see what made it the right thing at that point.

If no, try to figure out why. Perhaps your emotions were out of control? Perhaps you should have given it earlier? Perhaps you need to work on a more effective way to "talk kids down"? Perhaps you need to "read" the kids more perceptively?

If it's a weakness in seeing the game situation realistically, attend some games as a spectator and then ask questions of the refs. "Why did you do it that way? What did he say?"

If it's a more personal emotional issue, spend some time reading books on psychology, or even seeing a counselor, to figure it out. You'll get the hang of game management a lot faster if you are willing to deal with your orwn issues.

If you felt good about the T because you knew it was the right thing to do, then it was undoubtedly the right thing to do. If the good feeling had to do with a sort of power grab, or revenge thing, then you've got some work to do.

Either way, learn from it. Think about it. talk about it. Hey, that's what you're doing! You're on the right track.

MidMadness · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 14, 2006, 01:17pm

I had communicated with him a couple times about not needing him help and said "nothing there" a couple times. The kid was having a bad game and wanted to blame it on me. Thats why it felt good as he was being a lil s**t all game. By the way guys I appreciate the input.

stmaryrams · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 18, 2006, 01:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

... On the JV level, this might be the first time the kid has been exposed to HS contact, and may be used to chippy fouls being called at the Y.

Around here most of the "Rec" leagues are brutal with a great deal of physical play. You notice it often when the City League and Catholic schools play the suburban schools in high school contests.