[QUOTE=truerookie]Even if it is sarcastic, that is not always bad thing. Different situations require different responses.

Peace

[QUOTE=JRutledge]Mr. Rut, that is true and I can live with that.

If RonRef won't T a kid for telling him to "toot his whistle" then I suspect he doesn't have the guts to call one in the first place. I say that as an observer of Div 1 college officials for 20 years.

There is a difference in a kid "whining' because he thought he was fouled and I can handle that without the T. But when anyone, player or coach, tells me to toot my whistle he buys the T: first time, every time.

If the coach isn't smart enough to realize that I am trying to help him and do some preventive officiating then I guess I have to whack someone. I think that this helps build better communication between you and the coaches, letting them know that you can work with them and their players to better manage the game. I have never had a coach yet (knock on wood) go the opposite way as stated in your post!

Well, you ended up having to whack a coach because of an action that <b>you</b> initiated, i.e. telling a coach how to handle his own player. What you're proposing is fine <b>if</b> you know the coach and you also know he ain't gonna react adversely. With a coach that you don't know, you're taking your chances. Jmo.

JR,

I am not telling the coach how to handle his player, I am asking the coach for help with a player or players so we can avoid a situation where it will cost him 2 or more points. Most if not all of the coached are grateful.

I agree that waiting 3 qtrs to put the whining to an end is 2.5 qtrs too long. But I just don't see what your problem is with telling the coach his player needs to shut up. If the coach doesn't want to hear that is his problem, not yours. If the kid yaps after you tell the coach then the kid gets the T, same as he would have if the coach wasn't involved. I bet 99% of the time the coach will either thank you and comment that yeah the kid's a pain or thank you and remark that he doesn't usually act this way and then will tell the kid to shut his mouth.

I just don't get why you're making a big deal out of this.

Probably because I'm trying to get the point across that there is no all-inclusive way to handle <b>any</b> situation. You do what feels right to you at the particular point in the space-time continuum (I threw that in because bullsh!t baffles brains). Going over and talking to a coach is OK <b>some</b> of the time. That doesn't mean that it's OK <b>all</b> of the time. Jmo.

So there.....

It is amazing how you made that leap that I don't have any guts from a few posts. In the past 15 years I have given out my full share of technical fouls. When I first started out I was real hard guys and tried to pound my chest all the time by giving technicals out right and left, don't mess with me I am in change was my mindset. Over the years I have become more mature as an official and learned how to deal with these situations better by better communication with coaches and players. Since then my career has take an incrediable up swing. If a technical foul is warranted I will whack'em no questions asked. But in this case IMO I would have not whacked him, other on this site may have, and that is fine. Please don't make judgments about my character if you have never met me or seen me officiate. I will give you the same respect.

Probably because your laxative aint working anymore is more like it.

I will agree with 1 thing you said though. Probably not a good idea to make a show of "walking over" or "going over" to the coach to complain about a player, unless it's your intent to show the player and the coach up in front of the entire gym. Getting help from a team mate or the coach needs to be done quietly, don't make a big deal of it, just ask for (don't threaten) whatever help you need when there's a break in the action & let it go. It's between you & the guy you asked. If it works great, if not then you know what comes next.

Daryl, I respect your experience as a D1 observer. I have some idea of what that involves and the detail that you're expected to note. However, I'm just gonna disagree with you on your comments above. "Toot your whistle" may be an automatic T for you, but it's not for everyone. It's certainly not for me. It's not profane, it's not abusive, it's not excessive (by itself). It's just whining due to frustration.

I do not T for this, and I've tossed players and coaches from games. I have roughly the average amount of intestinal fortitude on a HS court. And "blow the whistle" is not a T in my games. At least, not "first time, every time". If it becomes persistent and distracting, then we find a way to take care of it.

I don't think this particular phrase is one where you want to disparage a fellow official's "guts". A coach screaming profanities in your face and you ignore it? Ok, that may show a lack of strength. But "toot your whistle"? I'm not buying that one.

I caught that too. Amazing how some people think giving or not giving T's is based on the size of your jock.

One of the toughest, most respected and successful D1 officials I know is proud of the fact that he gave very, very few T's before he retired. An ultra-uber-big-dog in real life and on the court, you do not want to be on this guys sh1t list. He just preferred methods other than T's to control his games.

JMO, the kid may have been whinning, that doesn't mean that a "T" is warranted. although something needed to be said to the kid way in advance. I think with the frustration of his playing and having a bad day. We all blame someone else when things don't go our way.I'm not saying he was right. The better players just keep playing and try harder. It may have been the right time in the 3rd quarter. It could have been the 4th quarter. JMO

I saw the the Mcnabb story, when he was drafted by the eagles and all were booing him at the draft becuase they wanted Ricky William, that made Mcnabb more deteremined to be better not complain. not everyone is a Mcnabb.

Yup....:D <i></i>

comedian in every bunch!