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Second of all, I am not a cheerleader, I am a referee! Thirdly, I never said we blow our whistles for them doing something right. Did you read anything I wrote? The benefit of talking to the players during the game (that I have found) is when I do make that call that they may disagree with me on, they don't go overboard in their displeasure. In fact, they usually come up and talk to me - they ask "why did you make that call?" or "why didn't I get that call?" - rather than yelling. I am not sure what level games you referee, but I have worked my way up from the youth level to college with the same philosophy. I have traveled as far away as Las Vegas for games (from NH that is a long ways). I have done games in front of Lute Olson among many other great coaches. My philosophy works and that's all that matters. Thanks for disagreeing with me. |
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Iow, I didn't expect you to agree with me anyway, right from the git-go Btw, since you did post your resume, when you said you're working "college", you do mean at the D1 level, don't you? What D1 conferences are you currently working in? Just wondering... Hey, if you think being Mr. Nice Guy means that you ain't gonna get crap from players, then you're living in a dream world imo. But, hey, if it works for you, great. Again imo though, any official is only as good as his last call...and if that last call went against a team, right or wrong, then all the sucking around and cheerleading in the world ain't gonna help you. It is too bad though that you don't show the same concern for your partners that you do for the players/coaches. Again, jmo, like it or not. Last edited by Jurassic Referee; Wed Aug 23, 2006 at 01:52pm. |
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Talking to players and coaches is an art; not everyone has the ability to pull it off effectively. As you can even see just on this forum, it is difficult to get your point across without someone jumping on it, even though you might actually agree in principle. Sometimes talking to players does help. But I've also seen it backfire many times. So, unless you know for sure your way prevents more problems than it causes, it's best to err on the side of not talking as much. It has been mentioned many times around here that no one can quote silence. There was a women that went into a specialty shop and was looking at a bag of imported walnuts. The young male clerk came up and asked if he could help. She said, "No thanks, I'm just looking at your nuts." Innocent response, but not exactly what she intended. Just be careful the same thing doesn't happen on the court by talking too much.
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M&M's - The Official Candy of the Department of Redundancy Department. (Used with permission.) |
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When a partner tells me that he has warned a coach, that doesn't mean I'm going to go whack the coach if he says another word. It means that the coach has been giving my partner some trouble and I'd like to help alleviate that if possible. With the additional information that my partner just gave me, I might rotate a little different to keep myself in front of that coach for a while. Maybe that will give the coach a chance to get his act together and nothing further will happen. I'm not going to "fight my partners battle," but I do think it's good info to know that a coach has been on my partner so much that it has warranted a warning. I've always thought that a "partner protect" technical foul is the best kind (if it came to that) anyway. If I know that the coach is all over my partner, I will start watching that interaction more closely. If a T is warranted later, it sometimes looks less confrontational if it comes from one of the refs who wasn't taking the majority of the heat from the coach. As far as your Lute Olsen comment, I can only respond with an icon on that one. Z |
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I think you guys are misunderstanding what I mean by "talking to the players".
I don't speak directly to an individual player unless I am answering a question or warning them and at that time I am doing just that. When I said I like talking to the players, I like talking to them as a group. For example, when I am the lead and administering a free throw, I will tell the players "good hustle gentlemen" or when I breaking up a loose ball dive, I will say something like "strong work boys." I very rarely say something to an individual player or team, I try and keep my encouragement comments to all the players on the court. And if the post play is getting rough I will say something like "fella's keep in legal." So, hopefully you understand, I am not kissing up or sucking up to any players. |
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I have read far more of these posts then I reply. I never like to post here because there is a core group of you who always attack everyone. If the "outsiders" don't say it the way this core group of people would say it then watch out. I came here to learn some new ideas from fellow officials, and I find all I am doing is defending the way I referee, a way that I have found works and has worked for me for many years. To those of you who show a valid interest in holding a true conversation, thank you. For everyone else... |
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99, Your comment about calling games in front of Lute Olsen could mean you called a pee wee tournament where his grandkid was playing. If your going to drop a name like that in here, you might want to be a little more specific. Did you work an Arizona game? And as you can tell by my number of posts, I'm not one of the "core group" that you are refering to.
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Get to call a HS exposure game in front of Lute Olsen...I wonder how much he paid for the camp?
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9-11-01 http://www.fallenheroesfund.org/fallenheroes/index.php http://www.carydufour.com/marinemoms...llowribbon.jpg |
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Hey guys, please do not debate here or something, I don't hope to see that and I'm upset about this. So let's just raise our own comments about COMMUNICATION SKILLS with Players & Coaches. I really appreciate your comments since I learned a lot from you guys, thanks again.
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-- Luis |
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Luis - As you can see, even in this thread, communication skills are very important. In fact, usually a focus of my pre-games is the word "communication". If you look at most pre-games, it's all about how we communicate with partners, both verbally and non-verbally during a game, or how we communicate with our signals and our voices to the table, coaches, players, and fans. Who's got the last second shot? How do I know my partner now has their new primary on a rotation and I can now look off-ball to my new primary? How do I tell my partner(s) where the ball is to be put in play after a foul or violation? How do I tell my partners the coach has been warned? These things can be done through good, crisp signals, body language, or verbally, all forms of communication. Heck, the pre-game itself should be about good communication - everyone should be involved rather than one person lecturing to the rest of the crew.
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The other issue most of us disagreed with was your comment about not fighting your partner's battles when they come to tell you they've warned a coach. Most of us feel we work as a crew, not as individuals, and we want to know if a partner has warned a coach if it's not obvious. You seem to feel differently, but instead of explaining why you feel that way, or having a conversation about the merits, you just dismiss it as attacking you. You will get a lot of information that isn't useful from this site, and a lot that is. The key for all of us is figuring out what is useful for us. Maybe you feel your skills have taken you a long way, but how do you know these suggestions won't take you further? Just something to think about.
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M&M's - The Official Candy of the Department of Redundancy Department. (Used with permission.) Last edited by M&M Guy; Thu Aug 24, 2006 at 12:06pm. |
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I use this site just like a camp instead of attending camps the summer, I attend this camp daily, I am here to listen and learn. I will take some of the information and incorporate into my game. Other things I will discard for a variety of reason. I will use those things that fit my personality and style. I have had partners who at times almost seem to have a running conversation with coaches during a game. I am more comfortable with short and sharp, for me I need to say it in 6 words or less. I am not saying my way of communicating with a coach is right and my partners is wrong. Short and sharp works for me and keeps my focus on the floor not with a coach. And yes, I will communicate with players on the court. I believe some of it is preventative officiating. If we need to clean up the post, when I am administering a FT I will say let's clean it up on the post. I see no harm in this as I am telling the players they can clean it or I can clean it.
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Nate |
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Also think that is made clear, a lot of our communication is non-verbal. When players come yelling or animated, I might just give those players a look and not say a single word. Then go back to what I was doing before. Not all types of communication are going to work the same way for anyone. Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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