Communication Skills to Coaches & Players.

[Official99]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

1) Initiate conversations? Without a real reason for doing so? Well, if that works for you, good luck to you. Personally, I think that's absolutely terrible advice. Imo, the last thing in the world that the players and coaches want to do out there is form a meaningful relationship with an official. They just want to play the game without someone breaking their concentration with meaningless chit-chat. You can be positive and approachable out there without sucking up to players and coaches, which is what you are basically advocating. Initiating dialogue for game management reasons is fine; being a cheerleader isn't. Just do your job well as an official; that'll get you the acceptance that you're looking for.

2) Well, that's kinda confusing. Of course we only only blow our whistles when someone does something wrong. That's why we're out there, isn't it? Why would we blow our whistles when they do something right? I hate to say it, but I think that you might be wearing the wrong uniform; it sounds like a cheerleader's outfit might be more appropriate. I also hate to tell you, but the first call that you make that someone doesn't agree with, you're gonna be just a regular ol' official azzhole again instead of Doctor Phil.

3) Well........forget it. I don't think that you'd get it anyway, and you sureasheck aren't gonna agree with me. I don't have to work with you anyway, so I don't have to worry about my back.

First of all, I never said I suck up to the players or the coaches.

Second of all, I am not a cheerleader, I am a referee!

Thirdly, I never said we blow our whistles for them doing something right.

Did you read anything I wrote? The benefit of talking to the players during the game (that I have found) is when I do make that call that they may disagree with me on, they don't go overboard in their displeasure. In fact, they usually come up and talk to me - they ask "why did you make that call?" or "why didn't I get that call?" - rather than yelling.

I am not sure what level games you referee, but I have worked my way up from the youth level to college with the same philosophy. I have traveled as far away as Las Vegas for games (from NH that is a long ways). I have done games in front of Lute Olson among many other great coaches. My philosophy works and that's all that matters. Thanks for disagreeing with me.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Official99

First of all, I never said I suck up to the players or the coaches.

Second of all, I am not a cheerleader, I am a referee!

Thirdly, I never said we blow our whistles for them doing something right.

Did you read anything I wrote? The benefit of talking to the players during the game (that I have found) is when I do make that call that they may disagree with me on, they don't go overboard in their displeasure. In fact, they usually come up and talk to me - they ask "why did you make that call?" or "why didn't I get that call?" - rather than yelling.

I am not sure what level games you referee, but I have worked my way up from the youth level to college with the same philosophy. I have traveled as far away as Las Vegas for games (from NH that is a long ways). I have done games in front of Lute Olson among many other great coaches. My philosophy works and that's all that matters. Thanks for disagreeing with me.

The level of games that I work or haven't worked isn't relevant as far as I'm concerned. What I post here is. Just take it fwiw; you don't have to agree with it. I don't believe in posting my resume, and I certainly don't expect everyone to agree with me. Apparently you do believe in posting your resume, thinking that it might mean something. Sorry. Unfortunately, your resume doesn't really mean much to me at at all.

Iow, I didn't expect you to agree with me anyway, right from the git-go

Btw, since you did post your resume, when you said you're working "college", you do mean at the D1 level, don't you? What D1 conferences are you currently working in? Just wondering...

Hey, if you think being Mr. Nice Guy means that you ain't gonna get crap from players, then you're living in a dream world imo. But, hey, if it works for you, great. Again imo though, any official is only as good as his last call...and if that last call went against a team, right or wrong, then all the sucking around and cheerleading in the world ain't gonna help you.

It is too bad though that you don't show the same concern for your partners that you do for the players/coaches.

Again, jmo, like it or not.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Official99

...rather than just attacking like most other people on this site. Thankfully, half of these guys I will never meet, nor do I ever want to meet.

Let me apologize for attacking you. I thought I was just giving my opinion on communication between partners.

Originally Posted by Official99

First of all, I never said I suck up to the players or the coaches.

Second of all, I am not a cheerleader, I am a referee!

I'm 100% sure you feel this way. But here's something to consider: how does it appear to other people? Are other people, who aren't involved in your conversation, 100% sure you aren't sucking up to the players or coaches? How do you know the players really don't think you are sucking up to them? After all, other refs don't talk to them that often. How do you know A1 isn't thinking you're a complete jerk for not commenting on his dunk, when you said, "Nice move" to B2 earlier? Perception may not always be what you think it is.

Talking to players and coaches is an art; not everyone has the ability to pull it off effectively. As you can even see just on this forum, it is difficult to get your point across without someone jumping on it, even though you might actually agree in principle. Sometimes talking to players does help. But I've also seen it backfire many times. So, unless you know for sure your way prevents more problems than it causes, it's best to err on the side of not talking as much. It has been mentioned many times around here that no one can quote silence.

There was a women that went into a specialty shop and was looking at a bag of imported walnuts. The young male clerk came up and asked if he could help. She said, "No thanks, I'm just looking at your nuts." Innocent response, but not exactly what she intended. Just be careful the same thing doesn't happen on the court by talking too much.

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by Official99

I can understand where many people would disagree with me on this point. I am a team player, I believe of the importance of having a team working together to ensure a good game. You are very rarely going to see a D1 referee fight someone else's battle. If a coach is talking to me about your call that happened 4 minutes ago, and you warned him... sure I will take that into consideration. But, if the coach is talking to me about a call I just made, that just occurred, I could careless about the warning you issued to him. Some people will never understand my philosophy on this, but it works for me and I don't go around handing out T's left and right. There are a lot of D1 officials who have this same understanding and it works in the big leauges.

I just completely disagree with your first post where you indicated that you don't want a partner telling you when they've warned a coach. Don't we want to have as much information about what is going on in the game as possible?

When a partner tells me that he has warned a coach, that doesn't mean I'm going to go whack the coach if he says another word. It means that the coach has been giving my partner some trouble and I'd like to help alleviate that if possible. With the additional information that my partner just gave me, I might rotate a little different to keep myself in front of that coach for a while. Maybe that will give the coach a chance to get his act together and nothing further will happen.

I'm not going to "fight my partners battle," but I do think it's good info to know that a coach has been on my partner so much that it has warranted a warning.

I've always thought that a "partner protect" technical foul is the best kind (if it came to that) anyway. If I know that the coach is all over my partner, I will start watching that interaction more closely. If a T is warranted later, it sometimes looks less confrontational if it comes from one of the refs who wasn't taking the majority of the heat from the coach.

As far as your Lute Olsen comment, I can only respond with an icon on that one.

Z

[Official99]

I think you guys are misunderstanding what I mean by "talking to the players".

I don't speak directly to an individual player unless I am answering a question or warning them and at that time I am doing just that. When I said I like talking to the players, I like talking to them as a group. For example, when I am the lead and administering a free throw, I will tell the players "good hustle gentlemen" or when I breaking up a loose ball dive, I will say something like "strong work boys." I very rarely say something to an individual player or team, I try and keep my encouragement comments to all the players on the court. And if the post play is getting rough I will say something like "fella's keep in legal."

So, hopefully you understand, I am not kissing up or sucking up to any players.

[blindmanwalking]

Originally Posted by zebraman

I just completely disagree with your first post where you indicated that you don't want a partner telling you when they've warned a coach. Don't we want to have as much information about what is going on in the game as possible?

When a partner tells me that he has warned a coach, that doesn't mean I'm going to go whack the coach if he says another word. It means that the coach has been giving my partner some trouble and I'd like to help alleviate that if possible. With the additional information that my partner just gave me, I might rotate a little different to keep myself in front of that coach for a while. Maybe that will give the coach a chance to get his act together and nothing further will happen.

I'm not going to "fight my partners battle," but I do think it's good info to know that a coach has been on my partner so much that it has warranted a warning.

I've always thought that a "partner protect" technical foul is the best kind (if it came to that) anyway. If I know that the coach is all over my partner, I will start watching that interaction more closely. If a T is warranted later, it sometimes looks less confrontational if it comes from one of the refs who wasn't taking the majority of the heat from the coach.

As far as your Lute Olsen comment, I can only respond with an icon on that one.

Z

I'm in total agreement with this post. I've worked with guys before that would not give me any help after I had warned a coach. I had to take care of business. They chose not to back me up. I really don't care to work with them anymore.

[Official99]

Originally Posted by zebraman

As far as your Lute Olsen comment, I can only respond with an icon on that one.

Z

You can take my comment about Lute Olsen however you want you. The intent wasn't to brag about the games, but to show that I am not some idiot and I've worked hard to get there (even though you may think differently).

I have read far more of these posts then I reply. I never like to post here because there is a core group of you who always attack everyone. If the "outsiders" don't say it the way this core group of people would say it then watch out. I came here to learn some new ideas from fellow officials, and I find all I am doing is defending the way I referee, a way that I have found works and has worked for me for many years.

To those of you who show a valid interest in holding a true conversation, thank you. For everyone else...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Official99

You can take my comment about Lute Olsen however you want you. The intent wasn't to brag about the games, but to show that I am not some idiot and I've worked hard to get there (even though you may think differently).

Get where?

[blindmanwalking]

99, Your comment about calling games in front of Lute Olsen could mean you called a pee wee tournament where his grandkid was playing. If your going to drop a name like that in here, you might want to be a little more specific. Did you work an Arizona game? And as you can tell by my number of posts, I'm not one of the "core group" that you are refering to.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Get where?

Can't you read?

Get to call a HS exposure game in front of Lute Olsen...I wonder how much he paid for the camp?

[Luis]

Hey guys, please do not debate here or something, I don't hope to see that and I'm upset about this. So let's just raise our own comments about COMMUNICATION SKILLS with Players & Coaches. I really appreciate your comments since I learned a lot from you guys, thanks again.

[M&M Guy]

Luis - As you can see, even in this thread, communication skills are very important. In fact, usually a focus of my pre-games is the word "communication". If you look at most pre-games, it's all about how we communicate with partners, both verbally and non-verbally during a game, or how we communicate with our signals and our voices to the table, coaches, players, and fans. Who's got the last second shot? How do I know my partner now has their new primary on a rotation and I can now look off-ball to my new primary? How do I tell my partner(s) where the ball is to be put in play after a foul or violation? How do I tell my partners the coach has been warned? These things can be done through good, crisp signals, body language, or verbally, all forms of communication. Heck, the pre-game itself should be about good communication - everyone should be involved rather than one person lecturing to the rest of the crew.

Originally Posted by Offical99

I am honest with them and if they ask a question I give them the best answer I can. But I also like to talk to them and initiate the conversation. I like talking with the players. I want to let them know I am there. I find that words of encouragement to players on both teams, at both ends of the court, can really help a game and diffuse intense situations quickly.

Official99 - This is a great example of communication. I don't disagree with most of the things you've stated throughout the thread about talking to players. For example, getting in there on jump balls and scrums and using your voice to let them know you're there is a great habit to have. However, I would like to point out the part in red. That was one of the first items pointed out to you (attacked?) as not a good idea. Initiating a conversation with a player or coach, unless there is some overwhelming reason to do so, is not a good idea, especially if the reason is so they can see you're a good guy. That is what some of us were trying to point out. Maybe that wasn't your intent, but that is what you communicated in your first post.

The other issue most of us disagreed with was your comment about not fighting your partner's battles when they come to tell you they've warned a coach. Most of us feel we work as a crew, not as individuals, and we want to know if a partner has warned a coach if it's not obvious. You seem to feel differently, but instead of explaining why you feel that way, or having a conversation about the merits, you just dismiss it as attacking you. You will get a lot of information that isn't useful from this site, and a lot that is. The key for all of us is figuring out what is useful for us. Maybe you feel your skills have taken you a long way, but how do you know these suggestions won't take you further? Just something to think about.

[refhoops]

I use this site just like a camp instead of attending camps the summer, I attend this camp daily, I am here to listen and learn. I will take some of the information and incorporate into my game. Other things I will discard for a variety of reason. I will use those things that fit my personality and style. I have had partners who at times almost seem to have a running conversation with coaches during a game. I am more comfortable with short and sharp, for me I need to say it in 6 words or less. I am not saying my way of communicating with a coach is right and my partners is wrong. Short and sharp works for me and keeps my focus on the floor not with a coach. And yes, I will communicate with players on the court. I believe some of it is preventative officiating. If we need to clean up the post, when I am administering a FT I will say let's clean it up on the post. I see no harm in this as I am telling the players they can clean it or I can clean it.

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

1) Initiate conversations? Without a real reason for doing so? Well, if that works for you, good luck to you. Personally, I think that's absolutely terrible advice. Imo, the last thing in the world that the players and coaches want to do out there is form a meaningful relationship with an official. They just want to play the game without someone breaking their concentration with meaningless chit-chat. You can be positive and approachable out there without sucking up to players and coaches, which is what you are basically advocating. Initiating dialogue for game management reasons is fine; being a cheerleader isn't. Just do your job well as an official; that'll get you the acceptance that you're looking for.

2) Well, that's kinda confusing. Of course we only only blow our whistles when someone does something wrong. That's why we're out there, isn't it? Why would we blow our whistles when they do something right? I hate to say it, but I think that you might be wearing the wrong uniform; it sounds like a cheerleader's outfit might be more appropriate. I also hate to tell you, but the first call that you make that someone doesn't agree with, you're gonna be just a regular ol' official azzhole again instead of Doctor Phil.

3) Well........forget it. I don't think that you'd get it anyway, and you sureasheck aren't gonna agree with me. I don't have to work with you anyway, so I don't have to worry about my back.

1) I am a coach now (official before) and I love when official are polite, courteous, and act like human beings. Talking with players and coaches is IMO an excellent way to establish relationships. A coach will be much less likely to yell and scream at you if you have a rapport with him/her. My question to you is this....HOW CAN IT HURT?? I don't think anyone mentioned sucking up, only you. Big difference between sucking up and conversation. I agree completely....you do need to do your job well, but where does it say that conversation with player/coaches is or isn't part of your job. Again you refer to things not mentioned before "cheerleading." Saying "great job" or "nice hustle" isn't cheerleading. From the sound of things your the ref that every coach and player hates see come through the gym doors on game night. My guess is that your favorite comment is "Coach, you coach and I'll ref."

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Nate1224hoops

Again you refer to things not mentioned before "cheerleading." Saying "great job" or "nice hustle" isn't cheerleading. From the sound of things your the ref that every coach and player hates see come through the gym doors on game night. My guess is that your favorite comment is "Coach, you coach and I'll ref."

I do this all the time. I do this for two reasons. First it lets the players know I am around them during loose ball plays. I want the players to know I am around so nothing funny can happen during dead ball situations. I also do not go out of my way to say things like this. I only say this when a player or two can hear me.

Also think that is made clear, a lot of our communication is non-verbal. When players come yelling or animated, I might just give those players a look and not say a single word. Then go back to what I was doing before.

Not all types of communication are going to work the same way for anyone.

Peace