intentional foul

[cloverdale]

hi fellow stripes been awhile...doing varsity team camp and had a situation where I called an intentional (off ball) because the contact was excessive...we shot one/inbound poi...later I reread the defintion of an intentional and was left with the impression that any excessive contact had to be on ball only, that the only times you call off ball is if there is delay in game...when I read the case book one of the situations was pretty close to what I had...they chose to call it because it involved advantage of position...any comments?

[BoomerSooner]

An intentional foul can be anywhere on anybody. The provisions of the rule are to prevent a foul being given with the intention of preventing an obvious scoring chance or to stop the clock without an earnest play on the ball.

Examples of off-ball intentional fouls could be holding a player that was going participate in a fast break situation. It could be fouling to stop the clock. There are a number of ways intentional fouls can be off ball, just remember to read the provisions of the rule (at work don't have them with me)

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by cloverdale

hi fellow stripes been awhile...doing varsity team camp and had a situation where I called an intentional (off ball) because the contact was excessive...we shot one/inbound poi...later I reread the defintion of an intentional and was left with the impression that any excessive contact had to be on ball only, that the only times you call off ball is if there is delay in game...when I read the case book one of the situations was pretty close to what I had...they chose to call it because it involved advantage of position...any comments?

Are you using NFHS rules?
If so, you should have shot TWO and inbounded at the spot nearest the foul instead of one and using the POI. In your case, the POI would be the spot nearest where the ball was located. So there is a difference.

Now to answer your question, the rules book says that excessive contact on the player with the ball shall be ruled intentional. It is implied that excessive contact away from the ball should also be treated in the same manner. You would certainly have a case of not making a legitimate attempt to play the ball!

Remember that while intentional fouls are not based SOLELY on the severity of the act, the severity certainly can be the determining factor.

Actually, I can't think of a case in which I wouldn't rule excessive contact away from the ball an intentional.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by cloverdale

...later I reread the defintion of an intentional and was left with the impression that any excessive contact had to be on ball only, that the only times you call off ball is if there is delay in game......any comments?

Wrong impression completely. Read POE #3 on intentional fouls on p.71 of the 2005-06 rule book. That gives a good description of what the FED's interpretation of an intentional foul really is.

[cloverdale]

it was team camp...all fouls were 1 shot but score the appropiate points...will read poe...looked at case book and came away with the same view that you should call excessive contact away from the ball...thanks for the rapid responces

[rainmaker]

Using the intentional foul for "excessive contact" is a good call when a T seems unwarranted, but the kid was really reckless or hostile. I wish they'd find a different name for it. It's can hard to explain that while the contact wasn't intentional as in deliberate, the book gives us this call for excessive contact.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Using the intentional foul for "excessive contact" is a good call when a T seems unwarranted, but the kid was really reckless or hostile.

Not only does a T seem unwarranted, but calling one is definitely not allowed on a play involving contact during a live ball.

So unless the action is flagrant what else are you going to call?

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Not only does a T seem unwarranted, but calling one is definitely not allowed on a play involving contact during a live ball.

So unless the action is flagrant what else are you going to call?

I know, I'm agreeing with you. I'm saying I think it's a good thing to have an intermediate call between the basic foul and the flagrant. I just wish it were called something else. I mean why not an "excessive" foul, or "excessive contact" foul? If it had a different signal, and a different name, the penalty could still be the same, but there would be less explaining.