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9-11-01 http://www.fallenheroesfund.org/fallenheroes/index.php http://www.carydufour.com/marinemoms...llowribbon.jpg |
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Holding
Camp I went to this year, the directors were introducting the concept of never calling a hold. Their philosophy...If it's a hold, it's an intentional foul. A hold is not a basketball play. Therefore, even if you have a common foul that you would normally call a "hold," come up with illegal use of the hands or a push, whichever would cover the play more. Thoughts?
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I know God would never give me more than I could handle, I just wish he wouldn't trust me so much. |
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That might just be the dumbest thing that I've heard of coming out of a camp- any camp. NFHS signal #30 is "HOLDING". NCAA signal #21 is "HOLDING". Both rule books recognizes holding as a normal, every-day foul. Those camp director/goobers obviously don't believe those rule books. Either that or they've never read them. Lah me, what will they come up with next? |
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I have heard that in the last 2 minutes of a closely-contested game, any hold should be a signaled as a hack or a push (because it looks stronger), but I don't buy that either. A hold is a hold is a hold. Z |
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I also think we need to make clear, this was a D1 camp!!! This was not some local HS camp where the clinicians only worked a state final because they hung around long enough. This was with D1 officials as clinicians and league supervisor where his games are on National TV every week. We also must know that D1 coaches know these philosophies and they have no problem with them. If you call this at that level, you will not be there very long and they will find someone that will follow the philosophy. This is not very different than when I worked my very first D1 baseball game, there were things I had to come to up to speed with or I would get run over and soon find myself not working their anymore. I know similar things happen in football because I belong to a football organization where several Big Ten crew chiefs and 3 NFL officials and what they have to do is very different than what we have to do at the HS level. Now where I live also the college influence is heavy and many assignors at the HS level, also assign college assignments and expect similar things from the college level. We are also influenced by the fact that many conferences have players that go to the D1 level or at the very least low level college ball all the time. I think this also needs to be said. The people at this camp mostly were college only officials. Not many guys here worked more than 5-10 games of HS a year and did not see a personal future for working HS ball. I know I found this unusual from where I live, because even the best college officials where I live work a decent share of HS games and even work deep into the playoffs. The only D1 Men's official that works almost no HS games, he helps assign a HS conference and he expects similar philippics to be applied in that conference or you will not get his recommendation to work varsity to the lead assignor, which can make or break your chance in that conference BTW. I agree that this is essentially a class of cultures in the officiating world, but depending on where you live you either go along, or sit out at the varsity and higher levels. Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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And I've seen all kinda fouls called in NCAA D1 games where a clean block was followed by a defender knocking the shooter down or putting him into the basket support. Even seen it in Big 10 games too...... I ain't gonna argue it with you though. Waste of time.....neither one of us will ever convince the other. |
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I'm doing a college pre-season game about 4 years ago.
Had the same play. I'm T, L had this play. Shot blocked, then contact. Late whistle comes. Shooter lands awkwardly and ends up chipping his tooth. L said, "I'm glad I had a foul on that play."
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Pope Francis |
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There has been some very good advice on this thread. I went to the Dale Kelley Camp in Dallas last year, and a camp in VA later that summer. They were very different camps. "Bring Pants," is very good advice. Perhaps even better is to find out from someone if you need pants or not.
The other, very valuable piece of advice that I will echo is "When in Rome. . ." Take the Dale Kelley Camp, for instance. If you are a ref who wants to work in one of the MANY college conferences that Mr. Kelley assigns, you do whatever mechanics he wants you to do, period. If you have a major problem with the way he wants the game called, go find work in another conference. Besides getting hired, another good reason to try and incorporate different philosophies into your game is that it makes you a better official. Some of the things I heard at the Kelley Camp were completely opposite of what I heard in VA. While I was in Dallas, I tried to do what they wanted me to do, when I was in VA, I tried to do what they wanted me to do. Now, I can do either one, if I want. It helped make me a better official by opening my mind to different ideas and philosophies about officiating. This is important because I don't want to dismiss something out of hand just because it is something that I don't currently do. It also teaches you to be aware of what you are doing, and how to change some aspect of your game if you want. One caveat, however, is that don't expect better assignments or more work just because you are doing what your supervisor says. It just isn't that simple; but I can assure you that if you don't do what those people want, you won't be doing anything.
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-RESPECT THE GAME- |
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It's quite different than the play and the expectations of the officials in rural Wisconsin, where one of the assignors sends out a letter each year reminding officials that most contact should result in fouls being called and that the games are called too loosely for his liking. There my partner and I turn down the advantage/disadvantage meter a bit and everyone (so far) has been happy. You gotta do what the boss wants you to do. Regional differences abound at the high school level. Good officials become aware of these things very quickly and are able to adapt to those expectations. Again, I find nothing noble about doing what we do. It's a job and those that hire set the guidelines if we want to work for them. |
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High Shool in Ohio breaks up it's schools by divisions for playoff purposes based on enrollment. I think in basketball there are 4 divisions. In Cincy, I know to some extent differences can be by league but how about by division (school size)? You work the D1 HS leagues, especially in the city league...you turn em loose and make sure they stay inside the lines. To be honest, those are my favorite to work because you WILL break a sweat. But you go into the country and work some of the smaller schools, it's a different style of play altogether. So I think thats another adjustment to consider. Back to the play...if the shot is gone and A1 gets blown up, it's a foul....why? In High school, how about airborne shooter? Now how about shot gone...then contact on the arm and / or torso but A1 is able to return to the floor and play on.....I got nothing....Is it a foul? By exact wording yes but do we all consistently call the game this way? I doubt it whether you are talking about D4 high school or D1 college. Did the contact disadvantage the shooter? That is what I look for. In both cases....we have a judgement call. At camp last week, one clinician had an interesting take he laid on us that I think applies to these situations.....at some point we all have to develop our own philosophy of what is a foul. Me personally, I have "grown up" an advantage / disadvantage" type guy. I'll be perfect honest, this philosophy has served me very well in boys and small college and I believe hurt me to some extent in girls and womens. Actually to the point where in girls, I now call a much tighter game than I ever would a boys game regardless of the division. Bottom line - Contact after the foul shot is the gray area and part of the gig. Lets just hope the folks we work for agree with our "philosophy" and / or lets hope we can adjust to theirs. Larks |
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Rich and Larks are right..... officials have to adjust to the level of play. I call a 4A boys game considerably different from a 1A or B boys game. I call girls games different from boys games. At state tournaments, they often want games called even tighter (depending on who the observers are) so another adjustment is required.
At any level, a clean block followed by significant contact will be a foul in my game. A clean block followed by marginal contact is nothing. Z |
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