All Star Officials

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by JRutledge


TH, I think you guys are taking the comments way out of context. All I am saying is that this is not a record-breaking event. It is not like Jackie Robinson breaking the color barrier, or the implementation of Title IX.

I'm not taking anything out of context. I'm just disagreeing with what you said.

No one is comparing two female officials working a game to Jackie Robinson. But for people who don't watch a lot of WNBA, it's unusual. Is it so bad that a first time poster would mention it? Sheesh! Get off the lady's back. There's no need to make her feel like idiot.

And yes I have seen and all-Black crew in the NBA in both the reg. season and post season. Just like my earlier comments, it does not happen every but it does happen. Almost 1/3 of the NBA officials are Black. So I would think that at some point they would be a possibility that they would be a crew with all people of the same race other than those of the white color.

Well, I've never seen it. In fact, all white crews are pretty unusual. Not that it matters to me one way or another, but I believe the NBA purposely integrates crews.

Tell you what, the next time you see an all black crew working an NBA game, drop me an email. I'll tune it. If it's broadcast, I can get it.

[Edited by BktBallRef on Jul 26th, 2001 at 01:27 PM]

[JRutledge]

I am not a big NBA watcher, but if I do I will tell you.

But about women and officiating, we will just have to agree to disagree. I just want it stated for the record that there are more women officials and seeing women officiate, especially in the WNBA, is in no way unusual.

But then again, I am not watching the WNBA all the time either or NCAA Women's College. The game just does not interest me, sorry.

Peace

[BktBallRef]

Saw a WNBA game last night, New York & Utah. Guess what? Three guys worked the game!

[mick]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Saw a WNBA game last night, New York & Utah. Guess what? Three guys worked the game!

Tony,
I assume you only watched long enough to count the officials.
mick

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Saw a WNBA game last night, New York & Utah. Guess what? Three guys worked the game!

Hey, I saw part of that game too. But I switched over
to the Utah-Houston summer league game and caught
Andrei Kirilenko. Man, that kid can play! Had a
bandage over his right eye which barely covered a
mean looking shiner. Maybe we'll see more of him come
October...but he'll need to bulk up a bit if he's going
to bring his "finesse" game to the big guys...

BTW (and I'm not making this up so no wise a** remarks, OK)
last night at the Starzzzzzzz game was "bring your dog
night". The stands were full (OK, about 1/4 full) of
women with their dogs. Really. Go ahead, tell 'em Tony.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Saw a WNBA game last night, New York & Utah. Guess what? Three guys worked the game!

TH, of course that is going to happen. More men officiate than women. It is just a known fact that in the Women's side of basketball, there is a major effort to get women out on the floor, like I think there is an effort to have more African-American officials on the Men's basketball side.

And whether you like it or not, coaches are the ones that are calling for that. They want individuals that reflect the players on the court. It might not mean that every situation or even most situations that can be accomplished, but it means that you will see all-women crews in Women's Basketball and mostly Black or all-Black in certain situations in Men's and Boy's Basketball.

And TH if you lived in the Chicagoland area, you would see the same thing. I am not talking about the Chicago Public League alone either (for those that understand the area). If you were to see some of the suburban teams that have all-Black teams against all-white teams, the coaches (especially the ones that have Black players on their teams) are calling for African-American officials to do these conferences. And I have been hired more than once because I was Black. Now the same thing happens in Girls Basketball. If a female is decent and can put air in the whistle, she will get the opportunity to move up fast.

One of the best games that I had last year was a game between Mundeline and North Chicago (all-Black team, all-Black coaches). My partners and myself were also Black. Now the game was at Mundeline (I think I am spelling that wrong) High School. The assignor is white and did tell me that he need more Black officials because the coaches were calling for it. And I do this coming year have more games with these other two Black officials in these two conferences that this white assignor assigned us to.

It might not be a everyday situation, but it does happen.

Peace

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by JRutledge

And whether you like it or not, coaches are the ones that are calling for that.

Rut, I could care less what coaches want. What's difficult to understand is why they want a certain race or sex on the floor. If it's me, I want the best official on the floor, without regard to sex, race, creed, religion, handicap, or anything else.

Put the person available on the floor.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Rut, I could care less what coaches want. What's difficult to understand is why they want a certain race or sex on the floor. If it's me, I want the best official on the floor, without regard to sex, race, creed, religion, handicap, or anything else.

Put the person available on the floor.

...and give the best qualified person the job; and give the student with the highest credentials the opening; and give the best performing employee the promotion...

Now you are getting into a discussion on the merits of the theory of affirmative action. I am not going to debate it or even state a position, I'm just saying that factors such as that sometimes enter into a coach's perception of who they want on the court. It's unfortunate that we've arrived at a place in our society where a person might perceive that an official automatically would be biased due to their race without any evidence of that particular individual being that way. And...it goes both ways. Although I have lived in Portland for the past 30 years, I grew up in the Chicago area and my high school was a real melting pot, and so were our sports teams. At the time, there was no doubt in my mind there were some prejudices on the part of some officials as to race. However, I don't think an official will be around very long if he or she exhibits those tendencies, thank goodness.

Eventually, everyone will accept the conclusions of the genome project and they will realize we're all more alike than some of us think. Maybe then, we will stop being this label or that label and start being just human beings.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Rut, I could care less what coaches want. What's difficult to understand is why they want a certain race or sex on the floor. If it's me, I want the best official on the floor, without regard to sex, race, creed, religion, handicap, or anything else.

Put the person available on the floor.

That might be fine and dandy, but the coaches are the ones that complain to the assignors. So whether you like it or not, coaches always have a say to some extent. Maybe they will not get exactly what they want, but they sure do talk to the assignors and have some influence. And if the assignors want to have some credibility, they have to take heed to some suggestions. And if Black teams are thinking they are getting screwed by white officials, you take that argument away when you hire more Black officials for their games. And believe me, in my state there are coaches white and Black of all-Black teams that believe this is the case.

You might talk about putting the best official on the court, but this is no different than appearance of an official. A fat guy might be the best official around, but he or she will be judged on their size no matter what. So what do assignors do, hire officials that have a slimmer look. Now who do you think complains about fat officials the most? Well, it is not the assignors.

Peace

[Edited by JRutledge on Jul 28th, 2001 at 01:37 AM]

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by JRutledge
So whether you like it or not,...

Why do you keep using that term, Jeff? I've already told you, I could care less what the coaches want. It doesn't matter to me. I haven't said that I like it or dislike it. If that's the systems in Illnois, then that's great.

Coaches there must be different than they are In NC. Here, coaches want the best officials, without regard to race, creed, sex, national origin, religion, or anything else. No affirmative action, no quotas, just send the best officials, whoever they are.

My last post on this subject. It was a joy.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Why do you keep using that term, Jeff? I've already told you, I could care less what the coaches want. It doesn't matter to me. I haven't said that I like it or dislike it. If that's the systems in Illnois, then that's great.

Coaches there must be different than they are In NC. Here, coaches want the best officials, without regard to race, creed, sex, national origin, religion, or anything else. No affirmative action, no quotas, just send the best officials, whoever they are.

My last post on this subject. It was a joy.

I use the term because it is true. Things happen in life that you and I have little control of. And merit is a good ideal and good principle, but I do not know too many places that uses a "true" merit system. The best qualified is always a value judgement and depending on who you are, that will be different. I know several companies that hire according to race and ethnicity, because of where the stores or business are located.

Now this discussion was not meant for an Affirmative Action discussion. Actually Affirmative Action is not at all what I am talking about or suggesting what is be used. This is just a credibility issue and pointing out that people of color and women on a basketball court is not very ususual. And I cannot speak for all areas, but where I live there are many female officials doing games. Now you will not see all-female crews, but it is not because they do not have the change. Just like the WNBA, women do not support women's sports like they do with men's sports. Men grow up loving sports, women do not unless they played them or not. And even if they did, they still might only like one or two sports. And because of that level of interest in sports from women, it shows by who tries to officiate.

Now it is way more complicated than that, but it explains some things.