Did I make the right call on THIS situation?

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

No but there is common sense. Do you only call fouls on missed shots and when the ball is turned over? Recovering a loose ball is not the sole test for whether a foul occurred or not.



This wasn't a fast break, was it? It was a trap in the FC. Just because the ball was recovered by a teammate, it doesn't that A1 wasn't placed at a disadvantage. I'm not going to call a foul and kill an easy 2. But a loose ball that falls into the hands of a middle school girl "in the far left corner" is not an easy 2.



And how do you know an advantage wasn't gained? You're telling Greg that he shouldn't have had anything on this play, so I guess you know better than the official who was standing. I'd be interested to know how you know the pass was intended for A2 "in the far left corner."

I said COULD HAVE, so come off the high horse before you get a nose bleed.

[REFVA]

Rutledge, this was my post

Originally Posted by REFVA
I'll agree 99.99% of the time, except on Monday night I did A HS summer league, we let them play and all hell broke loose, so unless you set the presidence up front that contact may get you in a game out of control...

I agreed with the poster, What I meant was we did let them play,and the contact was a little more than normal MS game. And it got out of control , so we had to reel it in.

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by REFVA

Rutledge, this was my post

I agreed with the poster, What I meant was we did let them play,and the contact was a little more than normal MS game. And it got out of control , so we had to reel it in.

What Rut was saying is there's more to it than letting them play versus not letting them play.

Is it a rivalry game? So did we pay closer attention to possible flare ups?

Did we pay attention to trash talk? And deal with it.

Were we aware of body language between players? And handle it accordingly.

Players that want to be out of control will be regardless of how you call it, the key is recognizing the problem BEFORE you need to reel things in.

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by REFVA

Rutledge, this was my post

I agreed with the poster, What I meant was we did let them play,and the contact was a little more than normal MS game. And it got out of control , so we had to reel it in.

You ref'd a HS game where "we let them play, and the contact was a little more than normal MS game"? Sounds like very weak HS teams if they can't handle "a little more contact than a MS game."

Out of control, to me, means that they are either not making basketball plays or they are playing outside of their actual ability. I kind of think this might have been a case of the latter. So how long did it take to "reel" them in? If you know, how many fouls were called in each half?

[REFVA]

In HS summer league your better talent is not playing. These are typical up and coming players. We play 20 min running clock, at the 12 min mark we were 12 to 11 fouls each per team. This was Prince William County in Va.
The Start of the second half we pulled both Make believe coaches aside and told to reel them in.

[dblref]

Originally Posted by REFVA

In HS summer league your better talent is not playing. These are typical up and coming players. We play 20 min running clock, at the 12 min mark we were 12 to 11 fouls each per team. This was Prince William County in Va.
The Start of the second half we pulled both Make believe coaches aside and told to reel them in.

Just curious, but are you in CBOA or Quantico?

[REFVA]

Just curious, but are you in CBOA or Quantico?

Neither, Although I do work with officials from both associations. I've been asked to officiate with both...I also do some work for Central and Battlefield.

[dblref]

Originally Posted by REFVA

Neither, Although I do work with officials from both associations. I've been asked to officiate with both...I also do some work for Central and Battlefield.

Not trying to be nosy, but I just wondering if we had worked together. I assume (I know what happens when you assume) that these are not games contracted by CBOA since non-CBOA officials cannot work games that the associciation contracted. At least that is what I was told. I know that a few CBOA officials do work with other associations.

[REFVA]

I was asked to officiate for CBOA, I am considering for next season. If you are an indepedent contractor how can they tell you what to officiate? That is one reason why I won't do CBOA games.

[ocreferee]

Originally Posted by REFVA

I was asked to officiate for CBOA, I am considering for next season. If you are an indepedent contractor how can they tell you what to officiate? That is one reason why I won't do CBOA games.

CBOA doesn't tell you what you have to officiate, you can pick and choose from a variety of leagues, levels, etc as they use the Arbiter in self assign mode for many (most) of their recreation leagues. Scholastic games are another beast, but they have a great training and evaluation program to create quality varsity officials. For the most part, you won't just walk right into Cardinal the first year and call varsity. There is a straightforward program of how transfers get accepted and a definition of each level of official they have in the association (Varsity, Swing, JV, Applicant).

I also know that if you wish, you can always work non-CBOA games/leagues. My father is a varsity official (after 5 years of hard work) and he still works for the independent youth league where we both started our careers.

OCReferee

[dblref]

@refva: Maybe I didn't say it very well, but what I trying to explain is that in a cboa assigned game, you will not see a cboa official and a non-cboa official. Your are right, as an independent contractor, you can work anywhere you choose to work. Not sure exactly what you meant by "tell you what to officiate". Because we use the Arbiter system, and you can "self assign" games, you can (generally) pick & choose any game/time/location you want. That being said, the system was originally set up so that 1st & 2nd year officials could not assign themselves to the more high level games. I was told this was done because most 1st and 2nd year officials did not yet have the skills for that level. This obviously isn't true for everyone.

@ocreferee: I know and have worked with your dad. He is a damn good official and my personal opinion is he should have been moved up earlier that he was. Cardinal has a pretty good training/advancement program. However, like most associations, we have officials that should have advanced quicker and some officials that should not have advanced. I have seen the association ask officials to go back through the summer evaluation program. We used to refer to this as the Flint Hill Program, because of where it was held.

[REFVA]

Not sure exactly what you meant by "tell you what to officiate".

What I meant was, there are some association that don't want you to work for other associations. They think that they have the sole right to your skills. I have hit that block a couple of times. So it is a sensitive topic with most of the officials that I work with. they try not to verbalize where they work.

DBlref, Please turn your private message on. Will discuss further if you like

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by REFVA

What I meant was, there are some association that don't want you to work for other associations. They think that they have the sole right to your skills. I have hit that block a couple of times. So it is a sensitive topic with most of the officials that I work with. they try not to verbalize where they work.

That's how my HS association is. We are not allowed to work leagues/tournament for which our association unsuccessfully made a bid. It's a bullsh*t rule for more reasons than I care to get into in this forum.

We have a HS commissioner and a Rec League commissioner and all assigning is done at their whim. Definitely a touchy subject here on the Peninsula.