Did I make the right call on THIS situation?

[GregAlan]

YMCA girls' middle school game.

A1 gets trapped in her frontcourt in the right corner by two B players. She heaves a pass over the basket [within a foot of the rim] but it doesn't touch the rim, but goes to her teammate, A2, who is in the far left corner of their frontcourt. As A1 throws the ball, B1 hits her forearm. I call a foul on B1, but on the pass and not on a shot. The coach of the other team goes crazy, and so does some of his parents. They are screaming that it was a shot. I was pretty close to the situation where the player was trapped and I saw the look in her eyes; she wasn't looking at the basket, but was looking at her teammate cross court.

Did I make the right call, giving it to the A team for an oob throwin? Or because the ball went right over the rim, should I have considered it a try, even though in my opinion it was more of a pass attempt.

Your opinion on this, please.

[bob jenkins]

If you think it was a pass, you made the correct call.

Explian it to the coach and move on. If the coach won't let it go, deal with that.

Ignore the fans.

[BktBallRef]

It's a judgment call, it's what you get paid to do. Sounds like a pass to me.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by GregAlan

YMCA girls' middle school game.

A1 gets trapped in her frontcourt in the right corner by two B players. She heaves a pass over the basket [within a foot of the rim] but it doesn't touch the rim, but goes to her teammate, A2, who is in the far left corner of their frontcourt. As A1 throws the ball, B1 hits her forearm. I call a foul on B1, but on the pass and not on a shot. The coach of the other team goes crazy, and so does some of his parents. They are screaming that it was a shot. I was pretty close to the situation where the player was trapped and I saw the look in her eyes; she wasn't looking at the basket, but was looking at her teammate cross court.

Did I make the right call, giving it to the A team for an oob throwin? Or because the ball went right over the rim, should I have considered it a try, even though in my opinion it was more of a pass attempt.

Your opinion on this, please.

4-41-2 . . . A try for field goal is an attempt by a player to score two or three points by throwing the ball into a team's own basket. A player is trying for goal when the player has the ball and in the official's judgment is throwing or attempting to throw for goal. It is not essential that the ball leave the player's hand as a foul could prevent release of the ball.

You did great.

[blindzebra]

If it's a pass, it's a pass.

One thing I might add, in your description you said that the pass made it to A2, so was A1...who was in a bad situation, a trap...really put at a disadvantage by the contact by B1?

Sounds like you could have called nothing on this play.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

One thing I might add, in your description you said that the pass made it to A2, so was A1...who was in a bad situation, a trap...really put at a disadvantage by the contact by B1?

So you're going to wait to see if the pass makes it all the way across the court to A2 before you decide whether to call a foul or not?

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

So you're going to wait to see if the pass makes it all the way across the court to A2 before you decide whether to call a foul or not?

There is a statute of limitations on when you can blow a whistle for a foul?

Don't tell me you blow it immediately on an outlet pass on a possible break?

It's a foul when an advantage is gained by the illegal contact, and there are plenty of cases where that requires a late whistle.

[Adam]

If the pass was made more difficult by the slap, it's a foul. Whether the pass lands at its intended target isn't relevant. Also, in a ms girls game, I'm more likely to call the slap on the arm than hs boys.

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If the pass was made more difficult by the slap, it's a foul. Whether the pass lands at its intended target isn't relevant. Also, in a ms girls game, I'm more likely to call the slap on the arm than hs boys.

I'd rather not take away a potential advantage by team A, for contact that did not cause a disadvantage by team B...a late whistle is not a factor in that decision.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

I'd rather not take away a potential advantage by team A, for contact that did not cause a disadvantage by team B...a late whistle is not a factor in that decision.

The higher the level, the more contact I'll allow in this case. MS girls, a hand slap is getting a quicker whistle. HS game, I'm looking for more of an advantage.

[TADW_Elessar]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If the pass was made more difficult by the slap, it's a foul. Whether the pass lands at its intended target isn't relevant. Also, in a ms girls game, I'm more likely to call the slap on the arm than hs boys.

It may be the case of a slap with the hands of the defender still in a legal position (arms extending vertically inside the cylinder). This often happens with a trap defence, as three players are very close to each other in a very small area of the court. In this case the offensive player caused contact and (legal) defence should not be penalized.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If the pass was made more difficult by the slap, it's a foul. Whether the pass lands at its intended target isn't relevant. Also, in a ms girls game, I'm more likely to call the slap on the arm than hs boys.

I disagree...at the appropriate levels.

When working a level that understands the value of a almost certain score (and can count on such), they'll expect to not have that foul called...they'd rather get the points. Most HS coaches get it, a few don't.

Several years ago, I was working a men's league game with a variety of talent...former collge players, former HS players, and some that never played on an organized team. On one play, one of the latter group got slapped fairly hard across the arm as he threw a long pass down the court to a wide open teammate breaking for a sure basket. The guy started complaining about the foul as the teammate was catching the ball and starting to go up for an undefended layup. The that played college quickly pulled him aside and explained that they really didn't want to wipe the points from the board and get the ball OOB in the backcourt. Never heard another word from that player.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

There is a statute of limitations on when you can blow a whistle for a foul?

No but there is common sense. Do you only call fouls on missed shots and when the ball is turned over? Recovering a loose ball is not the sole test for whether a foul occurred or not.

Don't tell me you blow it immediately on an outlet pass on a possible break?

This wasn't a fast break, was it? It was a trap in the FC. Just because the ball was recovered by a teammate, it doesn't that A1 wasn't placed at a disadvantage. I'm not going to call a foul and kill an easy 2. But a loose ball that falls into the hands of a middle school girl "in the far left corner" is not an easy 2.

It's a foul when an advantage is gained by the illegal contact, and there are plenty of cases where that requires a late whistle.

And how do you know an advantage wasn't gained? You're telling Greg that he shouldn't have had anything on this play, so I guess you know better than the official who was standing. I'd be interested to know how you know the pass was intended for A2 "in the far left corner."

[REFVA]

The higher the level, the more contact I'll allow in this case. MS girls, a hand slap is getting a quicker whistle. HS game, I'm looking for more of an advantage.

I'll agree 99.99% of the time, except on Monday night I did A HS summer league, we let them play and all hell broke loose, so unless you set the presidence up front that contact may get you in a game out of control...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by REFVA

I'll agree 99.99% of the time, except on Monday night I did A HS summer league, we let them play and all hell broke loose, so unless you set the presidence up front that contact may get you in a game out of control...

There is a difference between let them play and let them kill each other. Calling the game is an art not a science. Just because all hell broke loose in your game does not mean you should not let them play. Also the more kids get older, the stronger they get, the more skilled they become, and the more they can handle contact. That is why we call it judgment.

Peace