What counts toward team fouls?

[GregAlan]

Just to clarify, what kinds of fouls count toward team fouls to put teams in the penalty? Player setting an illegal screen, offensive player using their left arm to run interference while dribbling...I guess I am just seeking clarification on offensive fouls. Is it only player control fouls on offense that are not counted toward team fouls for bonus purposes? I am working in a rec league working middle school girls' games.

Thanks.

Greg

[Dribble]

This is a difficult question to answer without knowing which ruleset you're referring to. Irrespective of that, almost all fouls (personal, technical, intentional, flagrant) count towards the team foul count. The ones that don't shoot FTs, in general, are player and team control fouls, while some indirect technicals do not count towards the team foul count.

With Greg's edit, I've edited my post, too.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Dribble

This is a difficult question to answer without knowing which ruleset you're referring to. Irrespective of that, almost all fouls (personal, technical, intentional, flagrant) count towards the team foul count. The ones that don't, in general, are player and team control fouls along with some indirect technicals.

If you can let us know which rules you want clarification on, then we can probably be of more help.

Huh? I don't know what FIBA or the NBA do, but IN GENERAL what you wrote is quite untrue for NCAA and NFHS rules. So while the ruleset which is being used is of great importance, I'd have to say that for a guy doing MS games you steered him in the wrong direction.

I know for sure that in NFHS play ALL fouls except for an INdirect technical to a head coach count in the team foul total that goes to awarding the opponent the bonus.

Please don't confuse the tally of these fouls with the actual awarding of FTs though. We know that NO FTs are awarded for player control or team control fouls, but these fouls do still up the team tally and the next foul may then warrant bonus FTs.

[Dribble]

Nevada, you're right...I was off to go eat dinner and wrote my reply in haste. I meant to say that "in general, player and team control fouls count towards the team foul count, but you don't shoot FTs."

Anyway, Greg now indicates that he's officiating middle school ball, so it's NFHS. Greg, in the situation you describe above, you would count that foul towards the team foul count, but not administer any FTs regardless of how many fouls team A has since it was a team control foul. This is a rule change from previous seasons where if team B were in the bonus, then you'd shoot.

[Dribble]

I know, IN GENERAL, there's a distain for FIBA and NBA rules on this discussion board, but...

In FIBA, technicals towards the head coach do not count towards the team foul count, while in the NBA no techs go towards the team or personal foul count. Player control fouls and team control fouls DO count, however.

In NCAA, the administrative/book keeping techs do not count towards the team foul count.

[dave30]

I do not think player control fouls count as team fouls in the NBA, but other offensive off the ball fouls do count.

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by dave30

I do not think player control fouls count as team fouls in the NBA, but other offensive off the ball fouls do count.

You should've quit while you were ahead, Dave. The underlined part of your post is incorrect. Unless it is an elbow, punching or flagrant foul, NO offensive foul counts toward the team foul count in the NBA. Rule 12B - Section VII.

[GregAlan]

Okay, so, under NFHS, what DOESN'T count as a team foul for purposes of the bonus situation? A simple little list would do...it sounds like ALL FOULS count except a player control foul. Is that what I am getting here?

[dave30]

I could have sworn I saw an illegal pick and the announcer said it put them in the bonus. Maybe not !

[Dribble]

Originally Posted by GregAlan

Okay, so, under NFHS, what DOESN'T count as a team foul for purposes of the bonus situation? A simple little list would do...it sounds like ALL FOULS count except a player control foul. Is that what I am getting here?

Essentially for your purposes, everything except for indirect technical fouls.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by GregAlan

Okay, so, under NFHS, what DOESN'T count as a team foul for purposes of the bonus situation? A simple little list would do...it sounds like ALL FOULS count except a player control foul. Is that what I am getting here?

Greg,
Under NFHS rules there is ONLY ONE kind of foul which does NOT count as a team foul towards putting the opponent in the bonus. That is the indirect technical foul which is charged to the HEAD coach as a result of some member of his bench personnel being charged with a DIRECT technical foul. The direct technical does add to the team total, but that team is not double penalized for the indirect that accompanies it and goes to the HEAD coach.
In other words, EVERY foul but that one adds to the team total. That keeps it pretty simple.

Got it?