Terry suspended for punch

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The NBA released this today: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playof...ory?id=2450020

I saw the very end of this game and the play in question. It occurred following the jumpball in the FT circle. Terry got the ball on the floor and was tied up by Finley and Manu. Finley is seen complaining about a punch after getting to his feet. One of his teammates calms him. Pretty much the we're up 1 with 3 seconds left so let it go talk.

Now I don't care one bit about the NBA or which team wins, but it is worrisome that the officials did not observe this action during the game. It was not penalized and the game was resumed with a jumpball in the center cirlce.

With all the complaining about the playoff officiating, missing a punch was certainly not what they needed.

Ironically, it was Mark Cuban's player who did it.

ironically, you claim to not care yet find it worrisome the punch was missed.

[Dribble]

I just saw the highlight of the punch and I can see how the officials missed it. There was a rugby-like scrum and the punch wasn't really obvious. We're not talking about a Kermit Washington-Rudy Tomjanovich type punch here. It was at the bottom of the pile and a cheap, short arm punch.

The officials were probably looking at the top of the pile and seeing who the two new jumpers would be for the jump ball.

So, it's unfortunate that they missed it, but it's understandable. We all miss certain plays.

[zebraman]

The TV crew didn't even see it and they have a producer with access to several different angles of the play. Jason Terry made the punch from the bottom of the pile. Almost impossible for the refs to see.

Z

[Kostja]

I know, nobody here cares about the NBA , but nonetheless I would like to discuss this pic of Dirk Nowitzki's last shot attempt in game 5 of the Dallas - San Antonio series:


I think I would call a foul here. What do you think? Has it to do with NBA rules or am I mislead with my judgement? Anyways, there is absolutely no complaining out there about the refs not making this call, so probably they were just right not to make it!

Cheers, Kostja

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Kostja

I know, nobody here cares about the NBA , but nonetheless I would like to discuss this pic of Dirk Nowitzki's last shot attempt in game 5 of the Dallas - San Antonio series:


I think I would call a foul here. What do you think? Has it to do with NBA rules or am I mislead with my judgement? Anyways, there is absolutely no complaining out there about the refs not making this call, so probably they were just right not to make it!

Cheers, Kostja

I don't know the NBA rules, but going off the NFHS and NCAA rules that I do know, you would be wrong to call a foul here. The NFHS rulebook contains the following sentence in 10-6-1: "He/she shall not contact an opponent with his/her hand unless such contact is only with the opponent's hand while it is on the ball and is incidental to an attempt to play the ball."
That is exactly what Bowen is doing in this picture. This is one of the cleanest blocks you will ever see.
If in your judgment contact between the player's hips, shorts, biceps, or hair on this play warrants a foul, then you need to do some personal reflection.

[REFVA]

"He/she shall not contact an opponent with his/her hand unless such contact is only with the opponent's hand while it is on the ball and is incidental to an attempt to play the ball."

Not clean if it causes a disavdantage to the offensive player. His hand is on the ball, but the rest of is arm is making contact with shooter's hand, arm and shoulder.

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by REFVA

Not clean if it causes a disavdantage to the offensive player. His hand is on the ball, but the rest of is arm is making contact with shooter's hand, arm and shoulder.

It's been mentioned on the forum before, so maybe you've seen or heard of this philosophy: "80/20". If roughly 80% of the contact is on the ball and 20% of the contact is on the body, you are probably not going to get a whistle in the NBA. If you look at the picture, all the contact is on the body and the non-shooting shoulder. And on a whole lot of the ball. This probably falls into that 80/20 philosophy. Lot of ball, some body. Good block in the NBA.

[dtref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I don't know the NBA rules, but going off the NFHS and NCAA rules that I do know, you would be wrong to call a foul here. The NFHS rulebook contains the following sentence in 10-6-1: "He/she shall not contact an opponent with his/her hand unless such contact is only with the opponent's hand while it is on the ball and is incidental to an attempt to play the ball."
That is exactly what Bowen is doing in this picture. This is one of the cleanest blocks you will ever see.
If in your judgment contact between the player's hips, shorts, biceps, or hair on this play warrants a foul, then you need to do some personal reflection.

Ok, I've reflected and this is still a foul. Not in the NBA, granted, but in any other level I would call a foul. Bowen made a ton of contact to the head, shoulders, and body that is obvious in this picture and even more obvious in the live play. That is not a clean block in NFHS.

[Raymond]

Bowen made a ton of contact to the head, shoulders, and body

From my view of this picture I see no contact with the body. I can see the faces of fans from Bowen's underarm down to the waistline of Notwiski's shorts, so I think we should re-evaluate this "ton of contact to the body" argument.

The contact to the hand and left shoulder are incidental to Bowen's very good block on the ball, IMO. Sorta like Chuck described above concerning the 80/20 philosophy.

Based on what I have heard in camps from D1 officials and even during a my formal evaluation from a high school observer this pictures depicts a good block.

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by dtref

Ok, I've reflected and this is still a foul. Not in the NBA, granted, but in any other level I would call a foul. Bowen made a ton of contact to the head, shoulders, and body that is obvious in this picture and even more obvious in the live play. That is not a clean block in NFHS.

I disagree. I watched a few minutes of the game and I saw the play. Bowen got all ball and this picture was taken a few microseconds after he stuffed the shooter. This contact was after the initial clean block and minimal at best.

Contact happens in basketball. Not all contact is a foul. This was a great block and just some minor contact down below. Good defense. This isn't the same as a clean block up top where the defender then plows into the shooter hard. No foul on this play, even in NFHS.

Z

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I don't know the NBA rules, but going off the NFHS and NCAA rules that I do know, you would be wrong to call a foul here. The NFHS rulebook contains the following sentence in 10-6-1: "He/she shall not contact an opponent with his/her hand unless such contact is only with the opponent's hand while it is on the ball and is incidental to an attempt to play the ball."
That is exactly what Bowen is doing in this picture. This is one of the cleanest blocks you will ever see.
If in your judgment contact between the player's hips, shorts, biceps, or hair on this play warrants a foul, then you need to do some personal reflection.

Jump Ball??????

[Raymond]

I think I would call a foul here. What do you think? Has it to do with NBA rules or am I mislead with my judgement? Anyways, there is absolutely no complaining out there about the refs not making this call, so probably they were just right not to make it!

Cheers, Kostja

Dave30, where were you during this discussion??? I don't care one way or another and I didn't see any of the plays live, but I don't remember seeing your opinion on this play nor Kostja's comments.

[UKREF]

Originally Posted by Kostja

I know, nobody here cares about the NBA , but nonetheless I would like to discuss this pic of Dirk Nowitzki's last shot attempt in game 5 of the Dallas - San Antonio series:


I think I would call a foul here. What do you think? Has it to do with NBA rules or am I mislead with my judgement? Anyways, there is absolutely no complaining out there about the refs not making this call, so probably they were just right not to make it!

Cheers, Kostja

This is a def foul , the defender as enteedr the attackers cylinder and you can see there is contact from top to bottom, no question here!! UKREF

[Jimgolf]

Originally Posted by UKREF

This is a def foul , the defender as enteedr the attackers cylinder and you can see there is contact from top to bottom, no question here!! UKREF

This is why everyone complained about the officiating at the Olympics, LOL.

The only definite contact seen in this picture is Bowen's forearm on Nowitzki's hand, which is legal contact.

There could be contact at the hip, and at Nowitzki's shoulder, and Bowen's elbow might be about to smack into Dirk's head, but this picture doesn't show any of these clearly, nor does it show the severity of the contact. Based solely on this picture, this is not a foul.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by UKREF

This is a def foul , the defender as enteedr the attackers cylinder and you can see there is contact from top to bottom, no question here!! UKREF

Fotunately, FEEBLE refs don't officiate NBA playoff games.

You can't call a foul based on a photo.