I Need Some Advice

[rockyroad]

The two most important words to memorize and practice before showing up at the camp - "I understand." The two words to never, never, NEVER let slip past your lips - "Yeah, but..."

Follow those two simple pieces of advice and most observers will love you...

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Follow those two simple pieces of advice and most observers will love you...

It helps if you get some calls right, too. . .

[zebraman]

Relax and have fun. You got invited to the tryout because you've showed potential. Just ref your game, work hard and don't be a know-it-all. Do what you did that got ya' the invitation.

One more thing: I do know a couple refs who got hammered for referring to players as "ladies." If you need to refer to them, using the term "players" or "number 24" will never get you in trouble.

Z

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by zebraman

I do know a couple refs who got hammered for referring to players as "ladies."

This just strikes me as dumb and overly PC. They're girls/women. It can't possibly be offensive to refer to them that way, when a respectful term is used. I call the guys "gentlemen" and the girls "ladies".

[SeanFitzRef]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

This just strikes me as dumb and overly PC. They're girls/women. It can't possibly be offensive to refer to them that way, when a respectful term is used. I call the guys "gentlemen" and the girls "ladies".

Yeah, Chuck, I agree with you, but have you seen some of these 'girls/women'?? They ain't quite 'ladies' - nor are they trying to be - if you know what I'm saying. That would be one reason not to refer to them as such.

Reference: Cheryl Swoopes.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

This just strikes me as dumb and overly PC. They're girls/women. It can't possibly be offensive to refer to them that way, when a respectful term is used. I call the guys "gentlemen" and the girls "ladies".

The term "ladies" has a connotation of servitude or living up to a certain standard of behavior. It has nothing to do with being PC it is what the term means. Now maybe you will find people that will not care, but many people do.

Peace

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The term "ladies" has a connotation of servitude or living up to a certain standard of behavior.

I have never, ever, ever in my whole life heard anything like that. Nobody that I've ever heard of has ever used "ladies" to indicate servitude. I agree that "lady" has a connotation of living UP to a certain standard (although not nearly as much today as in generations past), but it has never had a connotation of DOWN. Now, when JR mutters "wimmin", that's a different story.

I think it is a matter of PC-speak, and we'll simply have to disagree on that. But in any event, Juulie's advice is good. If you know ahead of time that a certain evaluator doesn't like certain things, then don't do/say them in front of that evaluator.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

I have never, ever, ever in my whole life heard anything like that. Nobody that I've ever heard of has ever used "ladies" to indicate servitude. I agree that "lady" has a connotation of living UP to a certain standard (although not nearly as much today as in generations past), but it has never had a connotation of DOWN. Now, when JR mutters "wimmin", that's a different story.

Now you learned something. When you say "living up to a certain standard," that standard is seen as subservient. Usually when people say act like a lady they are not talking about being outspoken, having goals outside of being a wife and at the behest of men. I know many women that cannot stand that term and would let it be known they do not like that term.

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

I think it is a matter of PC-speak, and we'll simply have to disagree on that. But in any event, Juulie's advice is good. If you know ahead of time that a certain evaluator doesn't like certain things, then don't do/say them in front of that evaluator.

Not sure what this has to do with being PC. I think it has to do with how terms are used to keep people in a certain place (women in this case). You do not have to agree (nor do I expect you to) but that is something you might be confronted by someone when using the term. I am just trying to give you background. Now you know, it is up to you if you choose to use the term or not.

Now the term upset someone in a camp or in an officiating situation. Now you know it is not just me is aware of the history of how the term is perceived.

Peace

[Ref_ Fred]

Are you going to Donnie Gray's camp in DC metro area?

[Ref-X]

Thanks everyone for all your great advice.
Like many of you have said, I am going to go there and just be myself. I will make sure my mechanics are solid and my appearance is good. Keep my eyes and ears open and respect the feed back from the observers.
I just have to avoid putting any unnecessary pressure on myself.
Thanks again every one

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

This just strikes me as dumb and overly PC. They're girls/women. It can't possibly be offensive to refer to them that way, when a respectful term is used. I call the guys "gentlemen" and the girls "ladies".

I know there are people who are offended by the term 'ladies'. My husband is one of them. I'm not.

My advice would be to take zebraman's advice a little more broadly and try to find out if there are certain things that certain evaluators tend to harp on. If you know someone in your area who works with these people, or has been to camp under them, ask what the PersonalPOE's are for each clinician. You may or may not decide to "play up" to those, but at least you'll know what's coming.

I might add that I've been to several college camps (never even close to getting picked up) and I think the most important thing to do is to stay involved and included in everything. If your face is there within the vision of several clinicians most of the time, you'll be more likely to get picked up next year, if you aren't this year. I'm not speaking from personal experience, but rather from what I've seen with other people.

Also, you might consider choosing a clinician to be your personal mentor for next season, even if you don't get picked up for college. This is a really good way to elevate your high school game, and also to get your name on the clipboard for next year.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

This just strikes me as dumb and overly PC. They're girls/women. It can't possibly be offensive to refer to them that way, when a respectful term is used. I call the guys "gentlemen" and the girls "ladies".

I'm with you on this one Chuck. When I address the players as a group I always say "Ladies" or "Gentlemen", that's whether it's 10 year-old kids or the roughest adult rec league. When trying to get the attention of an individual I simply address them by number and jersey color (ie: 13 Blue).

I don't see calling the collection of players "ladies" or "gentlemen" as anything that could be construed as negative.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

It helps if you get some calls right, too. . .

How would you know?

[rockyroad]

The ONLY time I have heard anyone say anything about calling players "ladies" was from a coach at one of those all-star type team camps. Team was from Houston, and there was a pile-up going for a loose ball right in front of their bench. I blew the whistle, got in there and said loudly "Nice hustle ladies. Everyone come up cleanly now." The coach asked me to not call his players ladies - he said "I don't want them to play like ladies, so please don't call them that."

My response - "Coach, do yoy want them to call me 'Sir?'" When he said "yes" I told him "Then I will be just as respectful to them" and he agreed that was a good approach.

I have never heard any evaluator get on someone for being respectful to players...

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

How would you know?

Well, that's what I've heard. . .