Except, except, except...

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by rainmaker
About rule 10.1.8, Thanks for typing it out, Tony. I neglected to consider that some on this board would be at a disadvantage without the text written out. I see what you mean about it not being a referee error, but what about other times when the "mistake" is a player problem, like...

okay give me a day or two, here, I need to process.

While I'm waiting, I'll make a point. The only time you can correct the wrong team inbounding the ball is when the official doesn't hand the ball to the player. in other words, if you put the ball on the floorsand start your count and B1 picks it up, you can blow the whistle and stop the play. If the ball is bouncing around after a basket and the team that scored attempts to inbound it, you can stop the play. Why? Because these aren't mistakes made by an official. They are "player mistakes." Is that what you're looking for?

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
The purpose of the play is irrelevent as to why it's in the casebook. The reason it's in there is because someone on the NF rules committee had it happen in a game and didn't know what to do, so he made up a specific penalty in case it happened to him again, so he could say "AHA, Gotcha". This is how most cases get into the book.

I already said that!

And I'm not even going to start a discussion about the meaning of "esoteric!"

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett

In my family, I am used as the ultimate metaphor for something complicated, arcane and difficult to explain

For those of you who are not familiar with the word arcane, it means secretive and/or esoteric.

For those of you who are not familiar with the word difficult, you must be a coach.

Originally posted by Mick
What does esoteric mean?

Arcane.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

While I'm waiting, I'll make a point. The only time you can correct the wrong team inbounding the ball is when the official doesn't hand the ball to the player.

Thanks, this is helpful. Are you saying that if I hand off the ball, start the 5-second count, and then realize that I've done it wrong, or perhaps my partner realizes I've done it wrong, I can't blow it dead and start over? Even if that's not okay, most of us would, wouldn't we?

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by rainmaker

Thanks, this is helpful. Are you saying that if I hand off the ball, start the 5-second count, and then realize that I've done it wrong, or perhaps my partner realizes I've done it wrong, I can't blow it dead and start over? Even if that's not okay, most of us would, wouldn't we?

If you realize your mistake before the throw-in is complete, you can correct it. However, when the throw-in is complete, it's too late to correct. 7.5.2b

[PAULK1]

I thought once the ball became live (when it was handed to the wrong team)it was to late...unless it is an alternating throw in possesion.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by PAULK1
I thought once the ball became live (when it was handed to the wrong team)it was to late...unless it is an alternating throw in possesion.

I wrote the statement based on 7.5.2b.

Team A is awarded a throw-in near the division line. The administering official by mistake, puts the ball at B1's disposal. B1 completes the throw-in and Team B subsequently scores a goal. Ruling: No correction can be made for the mistake by the official.

I don't see any reason the mistake couldn't be corrected during a normal throw-in if it can be corrected during an AP throw-in. Perhaps we can research it more.

[PAULK1]

My reasoning is that this is not a correctable error
so blowing the play dead is an inadvertent whistle
which goes back to the team in possession (still the wrong team)unless it is an AP throw in since a team does not lose the opportunity to make a AP throw in on an inadvertent whistle the AP throw in would be made by the team entittled to it.

[Dan_ref]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mick

What does esoteric mean?

I think it's one of them geological time periods.
The esoteric era fell between the pan-generic era and
the curvatious-mongolith era. It was during this
time period when small brained pre-humans roamed the earth
and developed a very limited, barely useful vocabulary.

Their mating ritual required them to loudly yell some
phrases to attract receptive partners. Unfortunately,
these phrases were yelled so loudly that heads would often explode before mating was succesfully accomplished. This
is thought to be the main cause of their eventual near
extinction. Remnants of this early tribe still exist,
you can recognize them by listening carefully for some
of their more common phrases:


"That's terrible! How can you call that?!"
"3 seconds! He's been in there all day!"
(This is sometimes followed by a ritualistic trance
inducing counting: "1...2...3...4...5...")
"You gotta have *something* on that!"
"That's not a charge! His feet were moving!"
"Come on! Call it both ways!"
"You are *the worse* I've seen in 20 years!"

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by PAULK1
My reasoning is that this is not a correctable error
so blowing the play dead is an inadvertent whistle
which goes back to the team in possession (still the wrong team)unless it is an AP throw in since a team does not lose the opportunity to make a AP throw in on an inadvertent whistle the AP throw in would be made by the team entittled to it.

I guess we need some clarification. I recall that this has been discussed before but I can't remember what the conclusion was. Based on 7.5.2b, it would seem that it could be corrected before the throw-in ended. But I can see where the ball becoming live would make it too late to correct.

Best thing to do - don't make the mistake to begin with!

[Camron Rust]

I believe it is correctable until the throw-in is complete. I go with the reasoning of why we have a throwin at all. It's because there was a violation, foul, held ball, or timeout. All of them specify a throwin is to occur.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Camron Rust
I believe it is correctable until the throw-in is complete. I go with the reasoning of why we have a throwin at all. It's because there was a violation, foul, held ball, or timeout. All of them specify a throwin is to occur.

That was my original thought but Paul got me to thinking. The best solution is to avoid it to begin with.

[Richard Ogg]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
.... The best solution is to avoid it to begin with.

I will always agree with this, but it also makes this discussion board significantly decrease in value. It is just because of such things we hammer out what to do, or how to properly recover.

My guess is that you can almost always correct it (before the inbound pass) and justify your action. Everyone will agree we want to "get it right." If a real "by the book only" coach insists on not correcting the mistake, there will probably be either a violation or foul coming real quick.