Actually, my favorite <b>manager</b> is Willie Randolph. It's just too bad that he's managing the Mets, but he shoulda got a shot somewhere years ago imo. He is just one classy individual; he was my personal favorite player on those great Yankee teams of the late 70's. Just a clutch ballplayer that you could always depend on.

LaRussa is a legend in his own mind.

Alright, you say tomato, I say potato...or something like that.

Willie does seem to be a class guy from what I've seen. But then again, I'm not watching N.Y. sports teams that often.

So some person who's sunk literally billions of dollars into his professional sports franchise should just shrug and say "Oh well...nice try fellas"? If you own an majority stake in a multi-billion dollar business your goal should be *less* than the best you can do?

:confused: With all due respect this comparison is stupid. Your statistics assume random outcomes of a fair game. Obviously the outcome of a professional sporting event is neither random nor fair. Opinions...everybody's got one.

:shrug:

Maybe it's time to say, "Go M&M !"

And I'll pick the destination.

Pack light clothing, M. It'll be warm.:D

Yes I am. In fact, I root for the Cardinals, St. Louis Blues (yes, I know, who cares about hockey! ;)), Indiana Hoosiers, and (I got one right) Chicago Bears. How about that as an Illinois fan... :D

You a big Indiana Pacers fan too, Tanner? Big fan of Stephen Jackson? Jackson does need to work on his shooting though. He missed 5 shots in a row last week.

The Pacers are now officially the Portland Trail Blazers East.

JR,

Nope, I absolutely avoid the NBA at all costs. It's just not my cup of tea.

Good.

Now if we can just wean you away from the Cards.....:D

With all due respect. . . Nah, never mind ;)

The point of the comparison, which I perhaps didn't make very well, is that when a large number of people or organizations have the same goal and only one person or organization can achieve it, it's not unreasonable to be satisfied with a lesser accomplishment. Have a grand goal, by all means. But if that goal is not very likely (and even for the pre-season favorite, it's not all that likely), have a reasonable goal as a measure of success.

That was the point of my comparison. I have a grand goal, which is not very likely. So I also have other "reasonable" goals that, if achieved, will make my officiating career a success.

And while you question this as shooting for "less than the best you can do", you pointedly ignored my comments about the Devil Rays and Royals, who would love to win a World Series, but have almost no chance of doing so.

Yes, I know. I'm no good at all with probabilities. I was hoping that my numbers would give a decent picture. I should have known not to try to get them past you. :)

And why is that? Simply because the TB & Royals ownership are not willing to invest billions (yes BILLIONS) of dollars to make it more likely that their team will win the WS. To the NY ownership winning the WS equates directly in additional revenue, it's that simple. Obviously the Royal ownership has decided the investment needed to make a WS win more likely is not worth it. It's not their strategy. I doubt they would LOVE to win the WS because they don't INVEST in it. In fact, if they DID win the WS they would clean house within a couple of years because they could not support the salary structure to keep the winning team.

Let's face it, these people took a hell of a lot of money to come play in NY for this particular owner. I'm quite sure none of them have a line in their contract that says "Just do your best, it doesn't matter how we finish" in their contract. Their performance after mid-way thru game 2 was - in very real terms - a sad failure.

Good luck! :D

I knew that.
 

Ah ! ...A wean-ee and a wean-er.

Of course they would love to. You even admitted as much on the previous page when you said:

So they would love to win a World Series, but their chances are so slim (due in large part to their own choices, admittedly) that they gauge a successful season by a lesser standard.

I'm merely suggesting that King George recognize that his chances of winning a World Series are also slim (although greater than KC's, obviously) and so set a secondary -- more realistic -- goal, such as making the playoffs, by which to gauge the success of the season.

I'm just going there to visit you. :D

Well, not to beat this dead horse too much further but they obviously would not LOVE to win the WS. If they would LOVE to win the WS they would invest to do so. What they do LOVE to do, apparently, is to focus on eliminating as much expense out of their business as possible by limiting payroll. I guess you can send King George a check to take an ownership stake and then your opinion of what his business goals should & shouldn't be will have some value.

Looking at from a strictly business standpoint, if I'm going to write my check for my stake in the Yankee franchise, I'm happy with how things ended up this year. How much extra would have ended up on the 2006 bottom line if the Yankess had gone on and won the World Series? Possibly the revenue from 5 or 6 more home games? Over the course of a 81-game home season, that's not much. Will the franchise now be worth less overall because they didn't win this year? Not really. Would the franchise be worth more if they had won the WS this year? Over the long term, not really. Will the television revenue go down next year because they didn't win? Nope. Did the team get less publicity because they didn't win? Uh, nope. Will the sales of Yankee merchandise go down because they didn't advance past the first round? Most likely not.

Sucess is a part of the value of a franchise, but not the whole. All I have to do is say "Cubs". You can't say they have a valuable franchise because of all the winning. :rolleyes: There are many other factors that go into a good business. George is passionate about his business, and that's good. But it appears as though he might be too emotionally wrapped up in it, which is bad from a business standpoint. You have to be a little detached to make the right decisions. How much of going after A-Rod had to do with emotionally sticking it to Boston, as opposed to just making the right personnel move for the team? So coming out and saying that the team was a "sad failure" so soon smacks of emotion, not sound business thinking. I haven't heard about all the bad managerial decisions Torre made, so why is his job supposdly in jeopardy?

M, the basic difference is that Steinbrenner puts the bulk of his profits back into his team; the Cubs don't. I wouldn't be surprised if the Cubs actually netted <b>more</b> each year than the Yankees, if someone could ever nail their accountants down and get an accurate figure.

We're talking about an owner who once got into a fist fight in an elevator after a WS loss. Just saying it was "a sad failure" shows quite a bit of restraint & maturity.

Yeah, but wasn't that fight with Billy Martin? That doesn't really count as a fight. does it? More of a slap-fest...

Nope

1981 World Series
During the 1981 World Series, Steinbrenner provided a colorful backdrop to the Yankees' loss of the series. After a Game 3 loss in Los Angeles, Steinbrenner called a press conference in his hotel room, showing off his left hand in a cast and various other injuries that he claimed was earned in a fight with two Dodgers fans in the hotel elevator. Nobody came forward about the fight, leading most to believe that he had made up the story of the fight in order to light a fire under the Yankees. Additionally, after the series, Steinbrenner publicly apologized to Yankee fans for the team's defeat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Steinbrenner

Oh, 1981...I was like two years old then! :D

Torre is workin' the same dugout.

I believe the Cubs are owned by the Tribune Co., so it would be hard to find statements on just the Cubs franchise. But I would bet there's a lot of inter-connected businesses with the Yankees, just as there are with the Cubs. The Cub radio broadcasts have always been on WGN in Chicago. WGN, by the way, stands for "World's Greatest Newspaper", because it's also owned by the Tribune Co. Isn't the YES network owned somehow by the Yankees as well?

Anyway, that's part of my point - if George wasn't so emotional, maybe the Yankees would actually be <B>more</B> successful, both as a team and as a business. If he could find a way to be just as successful on the field, with a MN/DET/OAK - type payroll, his bottom line would be that much better.

I saw the press conference, it was at a far distance, and I was wondering if he got canned. Finally, I was able to go closer and saw the headline was reading he will return -- as he should, IMO.

Ok, I just heard another Chuck-type factoid - do you know what happened last night that has <B>never</B> happened in the history of post-season baseball?

It was the bottom of the fourth or fifth inning, and Oakland had runners on 2nd and 3rd with no one out. Robertson then proceeded to strike out the side. Apparently that's the first time in major league post-season history that the side had been struck out with runners in scoring position.

I remember that he did it. I even said out loud that he'd struck out the side. Didn't realize it was a first. Leyland came to the mound after the second hitter reached base. After the 3rd K, the announcer said, "Man, I wonder what Leyland said to him out there!"

I heard a post-game interview with Leyland where he was asked that, and all he said to Robertson was "to basically ignore the runners on base and just make your pitches. If you try to pitch too carefully, you'll give up the big inning, but if you just concentrate on the hitters, the worst that could happen is two runs score, and we're still ahead."

Sounded like he knew what he was talking about.

Cory Lidle dead in aircrash

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/10/11/plane.crash/index.html

Wow.

That's all N.Y. needs.

Very sad. And a little scary that it was a crash into a Manhattan high-rise. Sorry to hear it.

A team of destiny, Mick, a team of destiny!

And the Gremlins remained undefeated too.

My Tiggers are looking pretty good. I'm pretty sure SportsCenter said that no team has ever come back to win an ALCS after losing the first 2 at home. Maybe they said since it went to a 7-game format, I can't remember.

:)
Tigers are too young for destiny.
What they seem to be is a team that caught a few breaks.

Tonight, the 11-0 Gremlins (Class C) go 100 miles to play 11-0 Marquette (Class A).

I heard on ESPN this afternoon about another interesting tidbit - apparently the Met's team doctor has an office in that same building.

Oops! Cancelled

That's just not right when HS games are cancelled due to snow, and the WS hasn't even started yet!

And since when is football cancelled for snow? I thought football was played in any kind of weather, except lightning.

Girls basketball in the fall in Michigan, dummy. You knew that.

The Houghton Gremlins are defending Class C state champions.

Huh. I thought they played basketball in all types of weather too, even lightning?

Never mind!

http://www.billmon.org/archives/emily.jpg

Brrrr. Grrrr.
 

Very cool.

http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/baseb...gers-large.jpg

:)

Quirky stat for Chuck:

Oakland 2B Mark Kiger entered in the eighth, becoming the first player in modern day major league history to make his big league debut in the playoffs. He touched the ball once, catching an inning-ending force. The A's added him as a backup infielder for the ALCS after 2B Mark Ellis broke his right index finger in the first round of the playoffs. ...

Tigers are looking pretty good. Can't imagine any team coming back from being down 3-0 in an ALCS. Go Tiggers!!

How amazing is that? There's a story to tell your grandkids. That's very cool. Thanks, NV.

Yer team 2004 ? :)

Sssshhhhh! ;)

That 2004 team gives this year's A's hope. ;)

Fear factors
 

2004 Yankees won two at home and first one on the road.
2006 Athletics lost two at home and first one on the road.


2006 Detroit teams, Pistons and Red Wings, with new coaches, best records and veterans, lost.
Tigers, with new manager, 4th best record and a bunch of kids..., "haven't done anything, yet."

Well......there's always the Lions, Mick. They're the epitome of consistency. :D

Oh yeah !

2006 Lions, new coach, veterans and perfect record; wait'll next year.

Forget the Lions.....
 

Mick,

We are going to the World Series!!!!

Mags is the man.

Peace

Four to go, mick! That was quite a finish!

Could be some fun. :)

I have signed U.P. for the Milton Bradley fan club ! What a stud ! What class !

What did he do?

Peace

Milton Bradley
 

The main thing, for me, was that he made me hold my breath every time he picked up a bat and every time he threw the ball. [I felt the same way when I watched Jermaine Dye play.] For the four games MB was 9 of 18, scored 4 runs, had 5 RBI, never walked and struck-out only twice (game 3).
Placido Polanco MVP -> 9/17; 2 runs, 2 RBI, 2 walks, 1 K

Bradley is competitive, plays hurt. The guy never quit playing. Tonight he ran down a ball in right-center, reached up and back-handed [someone's] ball, jumping off his injured right quads.

At the end of the game he was walking off the field and pointing (I interpreted "saluting") the AL Champs.

He is a stud, Rut !

I hope that is a sign that he has things in perspective. I do think he is a good player he just needs to get his emotions under wraps. I do admire the way he played today.

Peace

Errrrrgggggh ?!!??!!

Dittos! Go Redbirds!

Heard Leyland say that if it hadn't been for the St. Louis organization inviting him down for Spring training the last few years, and if it hadn't been for the encouragement of the Cardinal staff, he probably would not have coached this year.

Did you hear on the Cardinal/Mets broadcasts where it was said that La Russa and Leyland are best friends and they talk daily to each other about the game? I am sure that had something to do with the opportunity that Leyland received with the Cardinals.

Peace

Tonight's starting pitchers in the Mets/Cards game have combined for 8 wins on the season! Reyes was 5-8 on the season and Perez was 3-13. It's the worst combined winning percentage for starting pitchers in a postseason game EVER! Each team has had 2 runners on base in each half inning, although there's still no score.

Mets blow it open.

Funny football note of the week. The Broncos are favored by 15 over the Raiders tonight. But the Broncos are only scoring 12.2 points per game this season! Raiders are stinking up the joint, so Denver may actually cover.

Take your 0ff-topic posts somewhere else, willya??

Geeze... :rolleyes:

There's a football thread somewhere, but I'm trying to get the 1,000th post in this thread. :)

Where's the "who's buying the diet cokes?" thread? :D

(Got the directions, BTW. Thanks)

Did I mention I have a problem disguishing right from left? Good luck,

In that case, I'll see you at 7.

Ended up 13-3. Denver stays near their average and Oakland beats the spread.

Unfortunately, the spread might be the only thing the Raiders (2nd favorite team) beats.

Carlos Delgado had 5 RBIs last night, giving him 9 for the LCS. That ties him for the Mets' team record for most RBIs in an entire series. And there are still at least 2 more games to go!

Or it ties the Cardinals with the most inept pitching in a Met's LCS ?

This one completly slipped by me, untill I read about it today - did you see Steve Lyons was fired by Fox for his "comments about Lou Pinella's heritage" after game 3 of the ALCS? I wondered what eggregious comments I missed; maybe I was by the fridge getting another brownpop, or maybe I was taking (leaving?...depositing?...) a dump? Anyway, from CBS Sportsline.com:

"In the second inning of Friday's game between Detroit and Oakland, Piniella talked about the success light-hitting A's infielder Marco Scutaro had in the first round of the playoffs. Piniella said that slugger Frank Thomas and Eric Chavez needed to contribute, comparing Scutaro's production to finding a "wallet on Friday" and hoping it happened again the next week.

Later, Piniella said the A's needed Thomas to get "en fuego" -- hot in Spanish -- because he was currently "frio" -- or cold. After Brennaman praised Piniella for being bilingual, Lyons spoke up.

Lyons said that Piniella was "hablaing Espanol" -- butchering the conjugation for the word "to speak" -- and added, "I still can't find my wallet."

"I don't understand him, and I don't want to sit too close to him now," Lyons continued.

Fox executives told Lyons after the game he had been fired."

Yeah, these types of comments are pretty tame said among friends sitting in a bar or a locker room. Problem is they were said to not a handful of people but to a couple-dozen million people, no telling what type of response you would get back. Of course, it could also be that Piniella didn't like Lyons to begin with, took offense and told Fox either he goes or I go....

Anyways, pretty damn stupid thing to say on TV if you ask me.

Maybe it was stupid. But it didn't strike me right away as an attack on Pinella's heritage. Maybe an attack (albeit good-naturedly) on his integrety. Of course, the article goes on to mention a couple of other Lyons' gaffes, so maybe this was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. (Oops - will I get PETA mad at me for saying that insensitive remark?...)

Yeah, that's how it sounds to me...but again you never know what will fly back at you when the PC crowd grabs ahold of these types of things. Fox did the smart thing in over-reacting IMO. I'm organizing a mass demonstration even as we speak. What color do you want us to spray paint your SUV...choices are neon green or taxi cab yellow, our experience is either of these go well with flat-black windshield.

Well I was at Game 4 of the NLCS. Great time, except for the out come! The Mets sure did poor it on us, though. Hopefully we can come back tonight. The winner of this game (game 5) is going to go to the WS.

And, the next Cubs manager:
http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/9732712

I'm not sure how I feel about this. I thought it would be interesting to have the hometown boy and former Cub Girardi give it a shot, but, then again, he wasn't a proven commodity. Piniella has proven it in the past, but he's also been fired a number of times as well.

Was it chilly last night?

Hey, if you can repeat your luck, I'll buy you tickets for night's game. :D

It actually wasn't too bad. I got by just fine with a sweat shirt.

If by luck you mean outcome...I can't make any promises, other than someone will win. If that counts... you're on! :D

Nope, sorry - you have to promise another Met blowout. :D

I really don't want the Cardinals to win, but I don't want a N.Y. team to win either. So for me, watching that series is like watching a traffic accident. You know you shouldn't look, but you just can't help yourself.

Right now, I don't think it matters which NL team goes. I think the Tigers will be too much for either team. But for the time being... GO CARDS! :D

(...grumble...grumble...grumble...)

Pinella has proven also that he cannot win when he does not have talent. The problem with the Cubs has never been their manager. The problem with the Cubs is they put faith in players that do not come through. If any manager does not have their top two pitchers for multiple years, then of course you are going to struggle. Also it does not help that the acquisitions you have made do not come through either. Pinella might change some attitudes, but he is not going to win if they have the same pitching staff.

Peace

I don't think any manager can win with the same staff the Cubs used last year. At one point they had over 70 to 80 starts by rookie pitchers. Not too many major league teams can last with that type of rotation. As far as the other players producing - I can't really complain too much about the players that are there, if they stay healthy.

It will be interesting to see what type of attitude he brings.

So, just wait 'till next...

Oh, nevermind.

Oakland A's fire manager Macha
http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/9733350

Game cancelled.

Should be good news for Glavine.

This can only benefit the Mets and their injury depleted pitching staff.

Very lucky for them.

Spahn & Sain and pray for rain. Or something like that.

But it makes it hard for Chuck to get to be the 1000th post! Nothing to talk about!

I dunno, he could come up with a real wisecrack about Piniella ending up with the Cubs.

And Piniella has shown that he gets very frustrated, very quickly with below-average talent. He was terrific in Cincinnati and even in Seattle (with A-Rod and Junior in his prime). But with the Devil Rays, it seemed like he just didn't care. Just get through the year. I don't think Lou is long for Chicago.

And unless there were guns drawn in the clubhouse, I think the Macha firing is indefensible. They didn't get along? Boo-hoo. He got them to the division title and the ALCS!

It takes a Cubbies fan to elevate rooting against the winners to an art form.

Hey, I'm also a Bears fan, so I don't just root against winners. :p

But I've certainly had enough practice rooting against the Cardinals, Mets and Yankees...sigh...

My first real experience rooting against the Mets was 1969, when they overtook the Cubs in the standings to go to the WS. Ron Santo was on that Cub team, and he does the color commentary on the Cubs radio broadcasts now. You can still hear how he feels about N.Y., and it all started that year. He also doesn't travel to N.Y.; I think the main issue is his health and the fact he cannot travel as much as he used to, but I don't think it's coincidence that he doesn't make it to Shea.

So... M&M... the chances of Lou getting ARod are about the same of the Cubs winning the World Series this year! :D

A-Rod has a "no trade clause" and he is not going to give up going to the Yankees to go to a team that cannot make the playoffs but every 3 or 4 years at best. He did that already on Texas, he is not going back. Lou might want that, but it is not going to happen.

Peace

And besides... what on earth do the Cubs have that the Yankees would want?!

They were already speculating this morning in a coupla NY papers about A-Rod maybe going to the Cubs. I can't see it personally; the Cubs don't have the young pitching that the Yankees need.

A-Rod is gonna go someplace.

Good question. :D

Peace

A-Rod is going to remain a Yankee.

Peace

GO CARDS!!!!!

Chuck is wrong again.

When the hell did I get my #8000 post? :D

Peace